Author Topic: μωρέ -> hey, well, wow  (Read 4863 times)

aelialicinia

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μωρέ -> hey, well, wow
« on: 16 Jan, 2008, 06:17:29 »
How would we translate into English this word?   μωρέ

for example - as in this phrase:

" Μωρέ  εσύ έισαι Μωρό ακόμα!


« Last Edit: 17 Jan, 2012, 22:21:37 by spiros »


billberg23

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Re: μωρέ
« Reply #1 on: 16 Jan, 2008, 07:20:39 »
It's impossible to translate literally.  Μωρέ is the vocative form of μωρό, which means "baby," so your sentence Μωρέ  εσύ έισαι μωρό ακόμα! means, literally, "Baby, you're still a baby!"  But μωρέ is a much more general term of intimacy than that, and is often (like the related ρε, μπρε, and βρε) meant affectionately.  English equivalents would include "man," "buddy," "kid," and "kiddo."  And, as with the foregoing English expressions, you can use μωρέ to address either a male or a female. 
Μωρέ, however, is far from being a "polite" term of address, and could be considered abusive if used toward a total stranger with whom hostile engagement is not out of the question.  In that sense, it would be like "idiot," "jerk," or worse.  It is, basically, a demeaning epithet.
« Last Edit: 16 Jan, 2008, 07:29:40 by billberg23 »
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Dr Moshe

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Re: μωρέ
« Reply #2 on: 16 Jan, 2008, 09:12:26 »
I mostly agree with Bill's balanced approach. Allow me please an etymological comment:

Μωρέ is actually the vocative of the adjective μωρός «stupid, idiot» (not μωρό «baby»). In the process the vocative has undergone a change known as semantic bleaching, which in fact involves a substantial loss of pejorative connotations. From several forms of μωρός well-known terms of address are derived, such as μωρέ (Bill made an apt remark considering the English equivalents) and even μωρέ > μπρε / βρε / ρε (a term of intimacy, not offensive anymore). The above mentioned changes are included in the general frame of grammaticalisation.
« Last Edit: 16 Jan, 2008, 09:36:55 by Dr Moshe »
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mortal69

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Re: μωρέ
« Reply #3 on: 16 Jan, 2008, 13:08:33 »
I am not so sure, but I think that it could be used as "Why, you are still a baby!". Correct me if I am wrong.
Μέσα από στράτα απόμονη κι απόσκια
Με αγγέλους του ʼδη μόνο στοιχειωμένη
Που κει θεά μ' όνομα νύχτα βασιλεύει
Κάτω στα μέρη αυτά έχω φτάσει, τώρα...

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Re: μωρέ
« Reply #4 on: 16 Jan, 2008, 13:52:33 »
"mortal69", you are absolutely right.

billberg23

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Re: μωρέ
« Reply #5 on: 16 Jan, 2008, 15:25:31 »
Thanks for the clarification, Dr. Moshe.  And I suppose μπρε / βρε / ρε are related to βρέφος ("infant") rather than to μωρός or μωρό, or is there some ambiguity there?  And are μωρός and μωρό on different etymological tracks?


mavrodon

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Re: μωρέ
« Reply #6 on: 16 Jan, 2008, 15:43:36 »
Although Dr Moshe is the one who will give a definitive answer to your query, I think that both μωρό and μωρός  are derived from the verb μωραίνω. Moron has the same etymological derivation (http://209.85.129.104/search?q=cache:THBkVjgAAQYJ:dictionary.reference.com/browse/moron+etymology+of+morone&hl=el&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=gr).
« Last Edit: 16 Jan, 2008, 15:53:01 by mavrodon »

banned8

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Re: μωρέ
« Reply #7 on: 16 Jan, 2008, 16:05:43 »
In the beginning there was μωρός, with the meaning of unintelligent, thoughtless (see also English ‘moron’). On one track, from μωρόν νήπιον, μωρόν βρέφος, μωρόν παιδίον (unintelligent baby or child), το μωρόν shifted to the meaning of ‘baby’ (see also το νεαρόν ύδωρ > νερό).

On another track, the vocative μωρέ gave us ωρέ and ρε, μπρε and βρε. It’s interesting how their use may differ slightly. And of course they can be used address either a male or a female. On the other hand, the feminine μωρή is definitely abusive.

billberg23

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Re: μωρέ
« Reply #8 on: 16 Jan, 2008, 17:25:52 »
And I find yet another opinion in ΛΚΝ (Petrounias):  μπρε and βρε are from Turkish bre/bire !

banned8

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Re: μωρέ
« Reply #9 on: 16 Jan, 2008, 17:31:41 »

aelialicinia

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Re: μωρέ
« Reply #10 on: 17 Jan, 2008, 05:41:51 »
I am not so sure, but I think that it could be used as "Why, you are still a baby!". Correct me if I am wrong.
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mortal69

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Re: μωρέ
« Reply #11 on: 17 Jan, 2008, 07:39:36 »
Thanks, I am still not certain about it, but I 've read that "Why! ..." one two many times in Arthur Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes Stories and I 've ended up thinking it like this whenever he speaks to Watson who is a dear friend of his, and has the necessary intimacy. Still though the correct way of translating it is the way that everyone else in here used (through etymology), but I prefer to go with the feeling that persists/lingers within me about an expression after reading it a lot in various fictional situations, mostly. :-)

spiros

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Re: μωρέ -> hey, well, wow
« Reply #12 on: 17 Jan, 2012, 22:22:03 »

μωρέ [mor'e] επιφ

= hey  Μωρέ Δημήτρη, κάνε μου, σε παρακαλώ, αυτή τη χάρη! = Hey, Dimitri! Please do me this favour!

= hey, well, wow  Μωρέ τι ευχάριστη έκπληξη είναι αυτή! = Well, isn't this a nice surprise!

= hey  Μωρέ τι μας λες, που θα την προσκαλέσω! Δε σφάξανε! = Hey, what are you talking about? I'm not going to invite her!

= well  Μωρέ συμπεριφορά να σου πετύχει! = Well, that's what I call bad behaviour!

= hey  Μωρέ παιδιά, μην με παρεξηγήσετε, αλλά είμαι κουρασμένη και πρέπει να φύγω. = Hey, guys! Don't get upset with me but I'm tired and I have to go.
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