Translatum Greek Translation Forum

[Leon]

I was thinking about how so many people (including myself in the past) have referred to themselves as English-Cypriots (as others would class themselves as French-Australians and Portuguese-Americans). But is it really correct? Shouldn't we really be using each nationality's connective term, thus: Anglo-Cypriots, Franco-Australians, Luso-Americans. Which is correct and how do you know when to use one instead of the other?

[Philip]

There isn't really a "correct" about it.  Think of it this way:  All combinations of nationalities can be expressed in the first way you give {French-Canadian(s), Japanese Peruvians, Ukrainian Brazilians, etc etc (hyphens if you like]  so this is a very productive pattern with no restrictions, as far as I can see.  The other pattern you cite (Luso-Americans, etc) is much more restricted, in two ways.  One, the first element is Latinate in origin, so if you or anyone else does not know the Latin, you cannot create a new form (while you CAN copy an existing form.)  Try putting my examples into a Latinate form and you will see what I mean. 

Second, the commonest use of the Latinate form (which is not to say the only possible use) is to describe alliances, treaties, negotiations etc between countries at governmental level, so Sino-Russian talks, An Anglo_French agreement, etc.  Like all patterns, this may spill over into other uses, including what people want to call themselves.  But once again, I would say that "correctness" has nothing to do with it. 

Hope this helps.

Philip

[tsioutsiou]

Hi Philip and Leon,
speaking of expressing combination of nationalities, my trouble is not the Latinate or English form (I see the latter is in common use, as Philip says) but whether the order of the two constituent words conveys a political smack, by stressing the national/ethnic origin over citizenship status and vice versa. So, along the pattern of Ukrainian Brazilians, Japanese Peruvians and the like, one would expect Cypriot English or Cypriot British rather than English Cypriots, the way this group refers to itself or may by described by native English. So is the case with all the ethnic or immigrant communities all over the Balkans. Would you say a Greek Albanian or an Albanian Greek as to a citizen of Greek descent living in Albania? Similarly, an Albanian Greek or a Greek Albanian with reference to a second-generation Albanian immigrant residing in Greece? Note that in Greek this phrase translated (Ελληνας Αλβανός and the inverse) makes no sense, though, unhappily, it looms lately in some texts as direct transaltion from English.
To cut the story short, is there a common and neutral way of describing individuals of ethnic groups living in states of different national composition, without leaving hints at their national or state loyalties?

[banned1]

Εννοείς, Περ., αυτό που φλύαρα θα διατυπωνόταν:
a(n) xxxxxxxx national / citizen / subject of xxxxxxxxx descent / origin
π.χ. a Greek citizen of Turkish origin, an Albanian citizen of Greek descent;

[Leon]

tsioutsiou, I am a Greek Cypriot. 'Greek' describes what kind of Cypriot I am, if you like (just to make my background ethnic origin clear, as opposed to Turkish, Armenian, Maronite, or Latin Cypriot). 'Greek' is an adjective here, and 'Cypriot' the noun (or at least this is their functions). Now κυπριακά is Cypriot Greek; 'Cypriot' is the adjective, describing what kind of Greek is being referred to (as opposed to Athenian Greek, let's say). If I were to say Cypriot Greek for my ethnic origin, it would imply something like I'm a Cypriot from Greece, rather than a Greek from Cyprus, and if it were Greek Cypriot when talking about the dialect, it would imply that Cypriot is the language, not Greek. The same goes for other fixed terms, such as French Canadian, for example.

Now where a hyphen is needed, is to indicate two nationalities (i.e. a citizenship and an ethnicity), rather than the first word describing the second (as in Greek Cypriot, where the hyphen isn't used). I.e. an American citizen of Italian ancestry is an Italian-American (descent first) yet a British citizen of Cypriot descent is a British-Cypriot (citizenship first). To be honest, I don't know why the order changes; perhaps it's just a case of what sounds best, I would imagine.

As for either a person of Albanian origin residing and having citizenship in Greece or an ethnic Greek living and having citizenship in Albania, I don't think it would matter which to use. From the point of view of a native anglophone, I really wouldn't think too much if I saw either (in Greek I would use Ελληνοαλβανός).

Hope I helped.

Leon.

[tsioutsiou]

Thanks a lot British- Greek Cypriot Leon 
and don't ever move out of Britain for good or you mess up your national description  :)

[Leon]

Hahaha! I'm half English (I never ever use British to describe my nationality. I hate it) so I suppose that will never be messed up. Now if I lived in France and then became an American citizen... 8-S