Author Topic: I am the son of Earth and Starry Heaven -> Γῆς παῖς εἰμι καὶ Οὐρανοῦ ἀστερόεντος  (Read 5237 times)

Nkoe

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Hi there! i´ve been working on a project on Orphism (which turned out to be far more interesting than expected!) and i really want it to be flawless. So as a way of humbly introducing myself and my ignorance on the topic i present you with this sentence here that´s giving me a real hard time. I´d really appreciate your expertise with it, this was engraved in ancient greek on gold plates resembling vine leaves (associated with the whole Dionysus thing going on there). I´ve tried to find the original ancient greek inscriptions on the net, but i´ve been thoroughly unsuccessful and the greeklish translations i could come up with are nothing in comparison to the actual ancient greek translations you might think of. Thanks in advance, and if you are interested on a quick glance at the topic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orphism_%28religion%29
And this is the sentence:

"I am the son of Earth and Starry Heaven; however my race is of heaven and this you know yourselves. I am parched with thirst and i´m about to perish, please give to me quickly the cold water which flows forth from the fountain of Mnemosyne."


Thanks again. Lucas.
« Last Edit: 02 Apr, 2007, 12:13:57 by wings »


billberg23

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Re: Hi there!
« Reply #1 on: 02 Apr, 2007, 07:03:46 »
Ι agree that the text isn't easy to find.  I happen to have it in my copy of G. Zuntz's Persephone (Oxford 1971).  Here you are:

Γῆς παῖς εἰμι καὶ Οὐρανοῦ ἀστερόεντος·
αὐτὰρ ἐμοὶ γένος οὐράνιον· τόδε δ' ἴστε καὶ αὐτοί.
δίψῃ δ' εἰμὶ αὔη καὶ ἀπόλλυμαι· ἀλλὰ δότ' αἶψα
ψυχρὸν ὓδωρ προρέον τῆς Μνημοσύνης ἀπὸ λίμνης.

I'm one of those benighted folks like Ivan Linforth (The Arts of Orpheus) who don't believe in "Orphism," and call the inscriptions "Pythagorean."  But I won't argue that point here.  Enjoy your research!
« Last Edit: 02 Apr, 2007, 07:33:51 by billberg23 »
Τί δέ τις; Τί δ' οὔ τις; Σκιᾶς ὄναρ ἄνθρωπος. — Πίνδαρος

mousafiris

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Re: Hi there!
« Reply #2 on: 02 Apr, 2007, 07:16:12 »
Quote
Ι agree that the text isn't easy to find.  I happen to have it in my copy of G. Zuntz's Persophone (Oxford 1971).

Billberg beat me to it!!! I do wonder about the "Orphism" or "Pythagorean" angle. Welcome Nkoe and good luck with your project.
« Last Edit: 02 Apr, 2007, 07:27:05 by mousafiris »
We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time.


mousafiris

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Re: Hi there!
« Reply #3 on: 02 Apr, 2007, 07:52:19 »

Quote
I'm one of those benighted folks like Ivan Linforth (The Arts of Orpheus)

Που το βρήκες το βιβλίο του Linforth; Ζητάνε $150 και δεν το βρίσκω. Είναι out of stock. Το είχα διαβάσει σε βιβλιοθήκη παλιά αλλά τώρα....και το ήθελα για τη δική μου βιβλιοθήκη.

billberg23

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Re: Hi there!
« Reply #4 on: 02 Apr, 2007, 08:18:15 »
Το είχα διαβάσει σε βιβλιοθήκη παλιά αλλά τώρα....και το ήθελα για τη δική μου βιβλιοθήκη.
Kαι εγώ, και εγώ!  Τελευταία φορά το είδα πριν από 40 χρόνια ...  Έξυπνη έρευνα είναι, και προπαντός έντιμη. 
« Last Edit: 02 Apr, 2007, 08:26:33 by billberg23 »

mousafiris

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Re: Hi there!
« Reply #5 on: 02 Apr, 2007, 08:46:36 »
Kαι εγώ, και εγώ!  Τελευταία φορά το είδα πριν από 40 χρόνια ...  Έξυπνη έρευνα είναι, και προπαντός έντιμη. 
Και εγώ πριν από κάτι τέτοια χρόνια περίπου. What a pity που δεν το έχεις. Θα σου ζήταγα φωτοτυπίες. Ναι και έξυπνη και τίμια η έρευνα του.
« Last Edit: 02 Apr, 2007, 08:49:58 by mousafiris »


Nkoe

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Thanks a lot! And sorry about my delayed answer, i thought it would take way longer to get that translated, i didn´t think you´d have Zuntz´s work as a source. Even better than i could have hoped for, the original inscription!
i invested some serious time looking up that paragraph on the net and got no results, though i got to find some "indie" texts and other pdfs on the topic that i didn´t find on my first research, like one by Torjussen:   http://uit.no/getfile.php?PageId=977&FileId=613
About Pythagoreanism vs Orphism, i barely got started on the contrast, but that constrast was totally called for because there are references to pythagoreanism almost everytime orphisms is discussed. Thing is, and this is somewhat of an "uneducated" guess (since i haven´t done much reading about pythagoreans, yet) the concept of metempsychosis seems to have existed before the phytagorean bunch and looks like it was introduced later, added to a group of other central theories and ideas about the universe. On the other hand, the begginings of orphism seem to match the apparition of metempsychosis (on greek territory at least) and the death-rebirth idea is not just part of the religion, they are completely fused, religion and concept are completely inseparable.
Though that´s what i could see so far by myself, maybe Ivan Linforth can shed some light on this issue for me.
Again, thanks for the warm welcome and for taking the time to look this up on your books!