τοῖς τε πατράσι ϰαὶ ταῖς μητράσι τῶν στρατιωτῶν τῶν ἐν τῷδε τῷ πεδίῳ τεθαμμένων οὐχ ἱϰανοι οἵ γε λόγοι οἱ ὑπὸ τοῦ ρήτορος δηλούμενοι περὶ τῆς τε ϰαλῆς δὸξης ϰαὶ τῆς ἐλευθερίᾱς τῆς νῦν σεσωμένης.

jmorsay · 5 · 990
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jmorsay

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τοῖς τε πατράσι ϰαὶ ταῖς μητράσι τῶν στρατιωτῶν τῶν ἐν τῷδε τῷ πεδίῳ τεθαμμένων οὐχ ἱϰανοι οἵ γε λόγοι οἱ ὑπὸ τοῦ ρήτορος δηλούμενοι περὶ τῆς τε ϰαλῆς δὸξης ϰαὶ τῆς ἐλευθερίᾱς τῆς νῦν σεσωμένης.
on: 27 May, 2009, 19:10:38

I think this means "The words that were showed by the public speaker concerning the belif of a beutiful woman and the assembly that now is being saved are not holy to the father and mother of the soldiers who sacirficed in this plain."

Is "ὑπὸ τοῦ ρήτορος " the genative of pesonal agent?

Is this right?

Thank you

vbd.

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τοῖς τε πατράσι ϰαὶ ταῖς μητράσι τῶν στρατιωτῶν τῶν ἐν τῷδε τῷ πεδίῳ τεθαμμένων οὐχ ἱϰανοι οἵ γε λόγοι οἱ ὑπὸ τοῦ ρήτορος δηλούμενοι περὶ τῆς τε ϰαλῆς δὸξης ϰαὶ τῆς ἐλευθερίᾱς τῆς νῦν σεσωμένης.
Reply #1 on: 29 May, 2009, 02:47:53
οἵ γε λόγοι οἱ ὑπὸ τοῦ ρήτορος δηλούμενοι = the speeches that are being delivered by the orator

οὐχ ἱϰανοι οἵ λόγοι = the speeches are not enough

τοῖς τε πατράσι ϰαὶ ταῖς μητράσι τῶν στρατιωτῶν τῶν ἐν τῷδε τῷ πεδίῳ τεθαμμένων = for the fathers and the mothers (plural!) of the soldiers who have been buried in this here plain

We had τεθυμένων and τεθειμένων last time. Now add to those "τεθαμμένων" > θάπτω = bury.




περὶ τῆς τε ϰαλῆς δὸξης ϰαὶ τῆς ἐλευθερίᾱς τῆς νῦν σεσωμένης: I think you were very lazy with that part. Were you thinking about a girl you like while translating this? It says nothing about any "beautiful woman". You should try this one again.
« Last Edit: 29 May, 2009, 03:03:37 by vbd. »
At last, I have peace.

jmorsay

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τοῖς τε πατράσι ϰαὶ ταῖς μητράσι τῶν στρατιωτῶν τῶν ἐν τῷδε τῷ πεδίῳ τεθαμμένων οὐχ ἱϰανοι οἵ γε λόγοι οἱ ὑπὸ τοῦ ρήτορος δηλούμενοι περὶ τῆς τε ϰαλῆς δὸξης ϰαὶ τῆς ἐλευθερίᾱς τῆς νῦν σεσωμένης.
Reply #2 on: 03 Jun, 2009, 19:52:32

My translation: The very speech delivered by the orator about both the beautiful belief and the freedom that has now been saved  is not enough for  both the fathers and mothers of the soldiers who have been buried  in this plain.

Is this better. My dad helped me on this. I have one question. Does σεσωμένης modify both belief and freedom or just freedom?

P.S. I do not like girls!

billberg23

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τοῖς τε πατράσι ϰαὶ ταῖς μητράσι τῶν στρατιωτῶν τῶν ἐν τῷδε τῷ πεδίῳ τεθαμμένων οὐχ ἱϰανοι οἵ γε λόγοι οἱ ὑπὸ τοῦ ρήτορος δηλούμενοι περὶ τῆς τε ϰαλῆς δὸξης ϰαὶ τῆς ἐλευθερίᾱς τῆς νῦν σεσωμένης.
Reply #3 on: 03 Jun, 2009, 20:05:00
I think you did well to translate the plural λόγοι (= "words") as "speech."

Look up δόξα again, JM.  Notice that there is another meaning, "glory," that fits the soldiers much better than "belief."  So περὶ τῆς τε ϰαλῆς δὸξης ϰαὶ = "about both their noble glory and ..." 

Then the answer to your question becomes clear:  it is only our freedom that has been saved.  Their glory did not have to be saved.

vbd.

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τοῖς τε πατράσι ϰαὶ ταῖς μητράσι τῶν στρατιωτῶν τῶν ἐν τῷδε τῷ πεδίῳ τεθαμμένων οὐχ ἱϰανοι οἵ γε λόγοι οἱ ὑπὸ τοῦ ρήτορος δηλούμενοι περὶ τῆς τε ϰαλῆς δὸξης ϰαὶ τῆς ἐλευθερίᾱς τῆς νῦν σεσωμένης.
Reply #4 on: 03 Jun, 2009, 21:10:36
Quote from: billberg23 on 03 Jun, 2009, 20:05:00
I think you did well to translate the plural λόγοι (= "words") as "speech."

Absolutely.
At last, I have peace.

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