Translation - Μετάφραση

Translation Assistance => Other language pairs => Ancient Greek→English translation forum => Topic started by: Jorsay on 16 Jan, 2009, 02:32:47

Title: ἐάν μή διδάξητε περί ἀρετὴς τούς τό ἀργύριον κλέψαντας, οὐ ταξόμεθα οἱ ὁπλῖται → if you don't teach those who have stolen money a lesson on moral virtue, we, the hoplites, will not line up
Post by: Jorsay on 16 Jan, 2009, 02:32:47

My son and I are confused on the apodasis of this sentence.  It seems to us to have two subjects: we and hoplites.  Please help.

So far we have this translation: "If you don't teach those men who are stealing money about excellence, the hoplites (or we) will not arrange themselves.

Thanks,

Title: ἐάν μή διδάξητε περί ἀρετὴς τούς τό ἀργύριον κλέψαντας, οὐ ταξόμεθα οἱ ὁπλῖται → if you don't teach those who have stolen money a lesson on moral virtue, we, the hoplites, will not line up
Post by: vbd. on 16 Jan, 2009, 03:02:59

Hello,

the speaker in this case are the hoplites. "if you don't teach those who have stolen money a lesson on moral virtue, we, the hoplites, will not line up" (or "will not take orders", if you don't take this too literally).

Title: ἐάν μή διδάξητε περί ἀρετὴς τούς τό ἀργύριον κλέψαντας, οὐ ταξόμεθα οἱ ὁπλῖται → if you don't teach those who have stolen money a lesson on moral virtue, we, the hoplites, will not line up
Post by: Jorsay on 16 Jan, 2009, 08:32:41

Thank you.

I have not seen this construction.  Would we say that "Hoplites" is in apositive position then?  Will this be true whenever I have a nomitive and an implied subject through the verb?

Title: ἐάν μή διδάξητε περί ἀρετὴς τούς τό ἀργύριον κλέψαντας, οὐ ταξόμεθα οἱ ὁπλῖται → if you don't teach those who have stolen money a lesson on moral virtue, we, the hoplites, will not line up
Post by: vbd. on 16 Jan, 2009, 13:58:07

Yes, there's an implied "ἡμεῖς" here. Self-evident things are often omitted in Greek. As soon as the author used "ταξόμεθα" it was absolutely clear that the subject is "we", in Greek "ἡμεῖς". "οἱ ὁπλῖται" then is in appositive position to "ἡμεῖς". Saying that "ταξόμεθα" is the verb and "οἱ ὁπλῖται" the subject is correct (and simpler) as well.

The nominative will not always be in appositive position, no.

Title: ἐάν μή διδάξητε περί ἀρετὴς τούς τό ἀργύριον κλέψαντας, οὐ ταξόμεθα οἱ ὁπλῖται → if you don't teach those who have stolen money a lesson on moral virtue, we, the hoplites, will not line up
Post by: Jorsay on 16 Jan, 2009, 17:27:33

Thank you