collapse of time into space → κατάρρευση του χρόνου στον χώρο

σα(ρε)μαλι

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Καλημέρα σε όλους

Μήπως μπορεί να με διαφωτίσει κάποιος με επαρκείς γνώσεις φυσικής σε ό,τι αφορά τη φράση the collapse of time into space. Πώς σας φαίνεται ας πούμε το: η σύμπτυξη του χρόνου στο χώρο. Είναι δόκιμη μια τέτοια έκφραση; Παραθέτω κι ένα μικρό απόσπασμα (που βέβαια έχει ελάχιστη σχέση με φυσική).   
As a threshold state and spectre from the future, postmodernity resonates supemolecularity and hyperdifferentiation, which is witnessed as the collapse of time into space, social heterogeneity and political flux.

Ευχαριστώ πολύ
« Last Edit: 29 Apr, 2014, 09:05:03 by spiros »
I can live everywhere in the world, but it must be near an airport -and a pharmacy, I would add.

Δεν είναι ο ύπνος της λογικής που γεννάει τέρατα, αλλά ο άγρυπνος ορθολογισμός που πάσχει από αϋπνίες.


spiros

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κάποιος μου ζήτησε να μην αναφέρω την πιθανή κατάρρευση του Σύμπαντος, ...στον χώρο και χρόνο, με τον χρόνο να αυξάνεται στον κατακόρυφο άξονα του ...
www.physics4u.gr/articles/2003/beginoftime1.html

Η κατάρευση της ύλης πώς ακριβώς ορίζεται; Καταλαμβάνει κάποιο χώρο η ύλη αυτή Την διάβασα στο βιβλίο "Το Χρονικό Του Χρόνου" του Στήβεν Χώκιν. Και,
www.esoterica.gr/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5202

ΦΥΣΙΚΗ
... κάποιος μου ζήτησε να μην αναφέρω την πιθανή κατάρρευση του Σύμπαντος, ...
αυτές -ημέρες εορτών και ελπίδας- η ανθρώπινη διάσταση του χρόνου κυριαρχεί.
www.startpoint.gr/page.aspx?id=613

Η βαρυτική κατάρρευση θα συνεχιστεί, μέχρι που ο όγκος του αστέρα να πλησιάσει το
... Ένα από αυτά είναι το "πάγωμα" του χρόνου στον ορίζοντα γεγονότων. ...
www.nea-acropoli.gr/publications/arthra/trypes_a.htm



wings

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Κι αν σε βολέψει η σύνταξη ώστε να χρησιμοποιήσεις το ρήμα, δηλαδή "το σύμπαν καταρρέει μέσα στο χώρο", θαρρώ πως η έννοια θάναι πιο δυνατή απ' αυτή του ουσιαστικού "κατάρρευση".

Λέω τώρα μια εκδοχή.
Ο λόγος είναι μεγάλη ανάγκη της ψυχής. (Γιώργος Ιωάννου)


σα(ρε)μαλι

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Ευτυχώς που απαντάται ταχύτατα παιδιά κι έχω την ευκαρία να ρωτήσω κι άλλα πράγματα. Αυτό ανήκει σε άλλο χώρο (English-Greek), αλλά μπορεί να το μεταφέρει ο Σπύρος. Λέει, λοιπόν, ο Ελεφάντης ότι η μακρά διάρκεια πάει να συμπτυχθεί μέσα στη βραχύτατη διάρκεια. Είχα θέσει ένα ερώτημα πριν από κάποιο καιρό για το the collapse of time into space πάρχουν και παραλλαγές του όπως: the political has collapsed into the economic. Είχα τότε ρωτήσει αν η σύμπτυξη του χρόνου μέσα στο χώρο αποτελεί δόκιμη έκφραση (το κατάρρευση δεν με ικανοποιούσε, καθώς δεν το βρήκα πουθενά. Όχι ότι βρήκα τη σύμτυξη, αλλά, κατά τη γνώμη μου, εννοιολογικά είναι πιο σωστό). Επομένως, αυτή η φράση του Ελεφάντη με γλυτώνει από κάποιους μπελάδες και θα ήθελα μια άλλη γνώμη για το αν ο συλλογισμός μου είναι στο σωστό δρόμο.   
I can live everywhere in the world, but it must be near an airport -and a pharmacy, I would add.

Δεν είναι ο ύπνος της λογικής που γεννάει τέρατα, αλλά ο άγρυπνος ορθολογισμός που πάσχει από αϋπνίες.



banned8

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Δεν θα συμφωνούσα με το συλλογισμό σου. Στην περίπτωση του κειμένου του Ελεφάντη η μετάφραση θα ήταν "compressed". Το "collapse" έχει μια πιο δραματική διάσταση, που πρέπει να αποδοθεί. Σε συζητήσεις για χωροχρόνο (ή χωρόχρονο), μαύρες τρύπες και τα συναφή, χρησιμοποιείται σαφώς το "καταρρέω" (υπάρχει και ο γνωστός όρος "βαρυτική κατάρρευση").
« Last Edit: 19 Apr, 2005, 01:43:43 by spiros »


spiros

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Το collapse (κατάρρευση) είναι πολύ πιο ισχυρή έννοια από το σύμπτυξη (retract, shrink)... ωστόσο χρησιμοποιείται στην πληροφορική, π.χ.

Table view has changed too much to set the collapse state
Η προβολή πίνακα έχει αλλάξει υπερβολικά για να οριστεί η κατάσταση σύμπτυξης


και μόλις τώρα είδα και την απάντηση του Νίκου που κυμαίνεται στο ίδιο πνεύμα...
« Last Edit: 19 Apr, 2005, 01:44:15 by spiros »


σα(ρε)μαλι

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Καταρχήν δεν διαφωνώ, αλλά θα ήθελα να σας δείξω κι αυτό και να διευκρινίσω ότι το context είναι κυρίως φιλοσοφικό με μεταμοντέρνες αποχρώσεις.
Δες για παράδειγμα:
Catastrophe theory: the collapse of time into space or
rather: the exploration of the hinge at which temporal bends into the spatial:
the return of movement/spatiality (after Kant)? Available at
 http://www.pd.org/topos/perforations/perf7/being-blown-apart.html
Από την άλλη δεν ξέρω αν θα λέγατε ότι το πολιτικό έχει καταρρεύσει μέσα στο οικονομικό, γιατί δεν έχει καταρρεύσει. Αυτό πάει στο: The political has collapsed into the economic.
I can live everywhere in the world, but it must be near an airport -and a pharmacy, I would add.

Δεν είναι ο ύπνος της λογικής που γεννάει τέρατα, αλλά ο άγρυπνος ορθολογισμός που πάσχει από αϋπνίες.


banned8

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Να σου πω την αλήθεια, όλη η θεωρία του χωροχρόνου είναι για μένα "φιλοσοφική με μεταμοντέρνες αποχρώσεις".

Τώρα αν θες κάποια απόδοση για εκείνο το "The political has collapsed into the economic", δώσε μας κάποια ιδέα της προέλευσης, του συγκείμενου.

Από 'κεί και πέρα, το ότι το είπε κάποιος, δεν σημαίνει ότι είναι καλά αγγλικά ή σωστή άποψη ή ότι μπορεί να μεταφραστεί όμορφα, ακόμα κι αν πρέπει.

Αν πάντως θέλει να πει αυτό που καταλαβαίνω, εγώ τείνω να συμφωνήσω και είναι κάτι στα πλαίσια του ότι η πολιτική ζωή έχει εκφυλιστεί σε σκέτο οικονομισμό.


Philip

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Το ξέρω ότι άργησα σε σχέση με τις προηγούμενες απαντήσεις, αλλά εγώ το βράδυ* ... κοιμάμαι.  Λοιπόν, έψαξα στο Cobuild Bank of English (450.000.000 λέξεις), και βρήκα 87 συνδυασμους του collapse με το into - αν έψαχνα και στο ουσιαστικό και στα collapses, collapsed, collapsing, σίγουρα θα ήταν πολυ περισσότεροι.  Βέβαια μερικοί ειναι κυριολεκτικές χρήσεις όπως we collapsed into bed, όπου η έννοια του "γίνομαι" δεν ταιριάζει καθόλου, αλλά φαίνεται καθαρά νομίζω η αλλαγή από την κυριολεξία σε διάφορες μεταφορικές έννοιες.  Σα θεραπεία για την αϋπνία σας, παραθέτω τα παραδείγματα.  Νομίζω ότι δείχνουν την ύπαρξη ενός regular pattern στα αγγλικά.

Φίλιπ

* σαν καλός άγγλος που είμαι

 the Good Friday agreement yesterday not to allow it to collapse into Middle East-style violence.         
     serving Japanese tourists, cook Barry a meal, then collapse into bed. <p> One night I was too tired even to
     Additionally, we can enjoy two cornets before they collapse into mush. Now this is summer, I muse, as we   
   me to make bright chitchat until I was allowed to collapse into bed. <p> Alas, it was a different story the next 
 us facing another 7,000 hours of Tube travel before we collapse into a heap of geriatric inertia, that is quite a   
  timber supporting the roof had split and was ready to collapse into the rotten floors beneath. <p> L'Avenc is par
  arriving at 9pm. Say hello to my husband, Peter, then collapse into bed. I will be up for work in the morning,     
   and explode in `hypernovas" so huge that they collapse into black holes, sending beams of deadly gamma rays   
 ruined; the fragile societies they hold up will either collapse into lawlessness and the drug trade, or be held even 
d square up to some juvenile Hitler-worshipper and then collapse into a fit of the vapours, whispering: `I can       
 At those levels, an unstable etheric oscillation could collapse into an astral vortex and suck my spiritual reserves   
 of boredom and bickering. Teachers are preparing to collapse into their deckchairs, exhausted by the relentless   
    others and without your `fixes" of helping you will collapse into a psychological jelly. This is a rather           
  the bagpipes or a Scottish traditional song, he would collapse into a puddle of inconsolable tears. The Celtic heart
 has governed the presidential trial so far is about to collapse into a party political series of votes to kill or     
 and dropped beats suggested the tones were about to collapse into chaos, an impression compounded by a sequ
pension might pay, always assuming annuity rates do not collapse into a further downward spiral. PAGE T032 
      JG Ballard's novel, High Rise, in which residents collapse into anarchy and wage war on each other's floors. A   
 I was faced with a dilemma - to allow Mary Magdalen to collapse into ignominy by having her sold off to remainder
 in Scotland or America, and feared such an event would collapse into a show trial of the entire Gadafy regime. Mr
     the fragmentary chaos of the everyday threatens to collapse into something altogether more devastating: `Th
  of courtesy and obedience without which hunting would collapse into chaos. The hunting field requires uniforms,
 crippled or disfigured if the giant bolt-on side wings collapse into the cockpit in a high-speed shunt. On the eve of
      The unions at, say, General Motors would probably collapse into laughter if their managers talked about `     
 a better way of resolving disputes. Otherwise it could collapse into a morass of litigation. The automatic inquiries   
     process. The good intentions of Paris could easily collapse into a resumed civil war - especially since Cambodia's
    reasons for believing that Indonesia is unlikely to collapse into Soviet-style disunion. First, the Indonesian     
    convinced that the rapidly installed new order will collapse into chaos. Bow Valley's management is equally certai
 he showed that under such pressures matter itself must collapse; into what, he knew not. <p> The idea, receive
  defining the mass above which an old, dense star will collapse into something other than normal matter - the mas
  Russia. Perhaps most importantly, communism did not collapse into a total vacuum in these places, nor were th 
     state. In the jargon, the wave function is said to collapse" into one state out of the many that are available to
chemical transaction appears to be necessary for DNA to collapse into compact chromosomes ready for the event 
   to 10 000. This would have allowed the gas clouds to collapse into black holes. Galaxies may then have formed a
  than the time it would take for a single gas cloud to collapse into a galaxy like ours. As a result, many researchers
    grabbing mini-waves do most of their work when they collapse into tiny breakers, an observation scientists had
 for the core of the star which formed the supernova to collapse into a neutron star. Later arrivals carried slightly   
data, scientists have calculated that the A ring should collapse into the planet over a very short timescale,           
The fog descends </hl> <subh> Will global warming talks collapse into self-interest? </subh> <bl> By FRED
    that if things aren't totally tidy their world will collapse into chaos," warns Les Posen. <h> The Hoarder </h>
 it's like God saying you were never here!" <p> We both collapse into tears of laughter, as Mr PR looks on, bemus
  five or six in the morning to nine at night. I'd just collapse into bed, exhausted. While we were filming in Paris w
in closed circuit, and when the guitars accelerate they collapse into their own halo of frazzled feedback. When the
   but need special bloom protectors if they are not to collapse into a soggy mess after the lightest of shower of   
accent, before the band and the audience simultaneously collapse into laughter. <p> So this was more than just a
 and long, blissful hill walks. Back at the hotel, we'd collapse into armchairs, books and drinks close by, to toast   
    there ever be a last squeeze single? Continents may collapse into anarchy, alien life-forms may take control of   
   Sadly, there are chaps in this very office who would collapse into the foetal position and jibber for mum at the 
   each night, we returned home, where Rudolf would collapse into his bed. He was complete professional to the
   is enough. Having surrendered their identities, they collapse into the void. <p> It is no coincidence that the     
 of course, all downhill from here. <p> The songs soon collapse into one great bleep-and-booster pile-up, from wh
       drink before you ask and brings it to you as you collapse into an armchair by the fire. If English country       
 gold reflectors in different sizes. All the reflectors collapse into an easy-to-carry circular bag. The Lastolite     
          of no particular design or period, which they collapse into to watch the football on the TV on a Sunday   
 until the morning. `They all have to be done before we collapse into bed," Jo laments. <ZZ1> details and photo
 were following her. She wanted Reggie. She wanted to collapse into his arms and let him take over. Behind her,
   safe and sound - and she had to believe that or else collapse into a state which would make her mother's condit
    at me and said: Ramsgate?" <p> And only then did he collapse into his bunk. <p> There was still plenty to be
        sweet iced tea. Calvin said that it was nice to collapse into an armchair for a change - he'd just come back   
  rules." He shook his head. `Gladstone says Europe may collapse into terminal chaos for a generation, if Britain do
      infinite ..." and expanding or else it would just collapse into ..." a black hole at the centre of the galaxy     
  an ingenious explanation of why the Universe does not collapse into a single body under gravitation, the problem
 the stellar core left over from a supernova. These can collapse into very dense so-called neutron stars, where a
 says political commentators fear the federation could collapse into civil war and break up. THE DAILY TELEGRAPH
     in the USSR, there is a danger that Yugoslavia may collapse into an all-out war. Over the past fortnight the rival
       will continue expanding forever or slow down and collapse into a cataclysmic Big Crunch. The existence of   
position, but if Saddam goes, then Iraq might very well collapse into warring factions, warring clans. There might v
 even the slightest offense. Basketball games routinely collapse into shouting matches when particularly sensitive 
          view that popular government would inevitably collapse into anarchy. It also showed the shortcomings of a
        the chromatin fibers would cause the nucleus to collapse into a relatively structureless mass. It was therefore
     in each chapter. The lower-level macropropositions collapse into one another to create the higher-level           
it are fairly well known. For one thing, it can quickly collapse into `the disease of which it is the cure" (Kohlberg, 
    open their eyes. &hellip; When both nations finally collapse into internal dissolution, then the United States can
 of powder, as though with the first good wind he would collapse into mist, like a puffball gone to seed, and float
   ideas. By the wee hours, those still conscious would collapse into the twin beds in the two bedrooms or onto th
 to them, his father's drunken rages that would finally collapse into self-pitying sniffles and sobs as the man sat by 
do on you over the last year. Your little mouth used to collapse into a frown when you saw me come in the room.
 slip away and Mount Iron will rise higher, as elements collapse into its lazy, low-energy form. Provided that matter
   enemy, the good team and the bad team, threatened to collapse into a desperate sameness. <p> In its charac
  ELIZABETH 67 # <p> its own gravitational field, would collapse into itself, forming a neutron star. Or a black hole
     going to Auntie Muriel's if Elizabeth was going to collapse into bed with a headache as soon as they got home
   of two or more clouds), inducing pockets of cloud to collapse into denser clumps. Once a rapid infall of matter 
Lorenz (1986) suggested that maars grow as crater walls collapse into successively deeper and wider conduits. Th
          to have brawls with each other, but we always collapse into bed about midnight thinking it was wonderful.
   and, in the dying moments of the fifth episode, they collapse into wrenching wails of despair. The London actor
   of the surfers `tanked up" at the local pub, only to collapse into an alcoholic blur for the weekend. Others boug
   exercise in front of a partner. The temptation is to collapse into giggles, but this doesn't matter. The important

 
But how shall men meditate in that, which they cannot understand? How shall they understand that which is kept close in an unknown tongue?

THE TRANSLATORS TO THE READER
Preface to the King James Version 1611


 

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