we cannot learn without pain → τα αγαθά κόποις κτώνται

sakduntra

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I would like a greek translation for the phrase above.  Thank you for any help!!!
« Last Edit: 01 Mar, 2009, 04:11:09 by spiros »


mavrodon

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In modern Greek, I would say: "Δεν μπορούμε να μάθουμε χωρίς κόπο". Upper Case "ΔΕΝ ΜΠΟΡΟΥΜΕ ΝΑ ΜΑΘΟΥΜΕ ΧΩΡΙΣ ΚΟΠΟ".
Note: Pain can be interpreted as πόνος but, in this case, it is better to say κόπος (toil).
In ancient Greek there is a saying "τα καλά κόποις κτώνται" meaning, in a way, "no pain, no gain", or, literary, "good things are acquired through (with) toil (pain)".
« Last Edit: 01 Mar, 2009, 00:14:58 by mavrodon »



billberg23

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See also https://www.translatum.gr/forum/index.php?topic=24190.0
Oops!  That's you again, isn't it, sakduntra, with the same question!
@ mavrodon:  Do we have an ancient source for τὰ καλὰ κόποις κτώνται?  It sounds vaguely Euripidean, except it won't scan!  (-:
« Last Edit: 01 Mar, 2009, 01:21:31 by billberg23 »


spiros

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It is not "τα αγαθά κόποις κτώνται"?


The aristotle phrase in Ancient Greek is:
τα αγαθά κόποις κτώνται
ΤΑ ΑΓΑΘΑ ΚΟΠΟΙΣ ΚΤΩΝΤΑΙ (in capitals)
http://hubpages.com/hub/Tattoo_Ideas_Greek_Words_Phrases



billberg23

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The aristotle phrase in Ancient Greek
I would be really, really surprised to find that this sentence (whether with καλά or ἀγαθά) is in the works of Aristotle.  But more and more people on the web seem to believe it is.  Source, anyone?


wings

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I agree with Bill. They mention the "Nicomachean Ethics" but neither of the two versions exists in the original text.
Ο λόγος είναι μεγάλη ανάγκη της ψυχής. (Γιώργος Ιωάννου)


spiros

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Well, I am as clueless as you are about the source; however, I should mention a modern version thereof:

Τα αγαθά copy κτώνται (or even better: "Τα αγαθά copies κτώνται")
Παραφθορά γνωστού αρχαιοελληνικού γνωμικού προσαρμοσμένο στη «σύγχρονη» πραγματικότητα. Παραπέμπει στην απόκτηση αγαθών μέσω παράνομων οδών. Στο ίδιο μήκος κύματος και το εξής: «τα αγαθά κλόποις κτώνται».


vbd.

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Σωκράτης
οἱ δ' εὖ πράττοντες οὐκ εὐδαίμονες;

Ἀλκιβιάδης
πῶς γὰρ οὔ;

Σωκράτης
οὐκοῦν εὐδαίμονες δι' ἀγαθῶν κτῆσιν;

Ἀλκιβιάδης
μάλιστα.

Σωκράτης
κτῶνται δὲ ταῦτα τῷ εὖ καὶ καλῶς πράττειν;

Ἀλκιβιάδης
ναί.

Alc. 1.116b


Socrates here retains that they're gained by acting well and nobly. I don't know the source of "τά ἀγαθά κόποις κτῶνται", it has a certain New Testament feel to it though.
At last, I have peace.


spiros

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mavrodon

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mavrodon

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Quote
Perennially, the most popular equivalent of "Live and Learn" in the Greek literary tradition is ΠΑΘΕΙ ΜΑΘΟΣ (lower case πάθει μάθος), from Aeschylus' Agamemnon.  Literally, it means "Learning by undergoing" or "Learn through suffering."
In Modern Greek we say "παθός-μαθός" or "το πάθημα (μου) έγινε μάθημα" meaning not learning by suffering or by strenuous effort but that suffering makes someone stronger and more wise (or less stupid).  Our life is a constant sequence of experiences, good and bad. The latter count even more than the former. They, in a way, immunize our psyche to withstand the vagaries of life. We say "bad experiences count".  Friedrich Nietzsche said “That which does not kill me makes me stronger” and, as Oscar Wilde claims in one of his famous quotes “experience is the name every one gives to their mistakes”.
« Last Edit: 01 Mar, 2009, 06:26:35 by mavrodon »


 

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