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Translation Assistance => Other language pairs => Ancient Greek->English translation forum => Topic started by: ksteier on 27 May, 2021, 04:02:20

Title: ἐγχειρίζεται τὴν προστασίαν τῶν ἀδελφῶν
Post by: ksteier on 27 May, 2021, 04:02:20
I would like some help translating the above. It is excerpted from Homily 88 by St. John Chrysostom. Of particular interest is whether or not it is an accurate translation of the section regarding "Feed my sheep" as 'Jesus put into his (Peter's) hands the chief authority', emphasis on the underlined portion.

Thank you in advance for your help!!
Title: St. John Chrysostom Homily 88 Excerpts
Post by: spiros on 27 May, 2021, 09:09:52
Do these help?
CHURCH FATHERS: Homily 88 on the Gospel of John (Chrysostom) (https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/240188.htm)
Chrysostom on GMatt 27 (http://ww3.haverford.edu/religion/courses/343b/ChrysostomMt.htm)

Please bear in mind that this is a terminology help forum and you are limited to 12 words per phrase query. Kindly read the rules (https://www.translatum.gr/forum/index.php?topic=35.0). So, your problem phrase is "ἐγχειρίζεται  τὴν προστασίαν τῶν  ἀδελφῶν"?

And here is the Greek text to avoid the images:

ΠΗʹ  Ὅτε οὖν ἠρίστησαν, λέγει ὁ Ἰησοῦς τῷ Σίμωνι Πέτρῳ, «Σίμων Ἰωνᾶ,ἀγαπᾷς με πλέον τούτων;» Λέγει αὐτῷ· «Ναὶ, Κύριε, σὺ οἶδας ὅτι φιλῶ σε.»

αʹ. Πολλὰ μὲν ἔστι καὶ ἕτερα τὰ δυνάμενα δοῦναι παῤῥησίαν ἡμῖν πρὸς τὸν Θεὸν, καὶ δεῖξαι λαμπροὺς καὶ εὐδοκίμους· τὸ δὲ μάλιστα πάντων παρέχον ἡμῖν τὴν ἄνωθεν εὔνοιαν ἡ περὶ τοὺς πλησίον ἐστὶ κηδεμονία· ὅπερ οὖν καὶ ὁ Χριστὸς ἀπαιτεῖ τὸν Πέτρον. Ἐπειδὴ γὰρ τέλος εἶχεν  αὐτοῖς τὰ τῆς ἐδωδῆς, Λέγει τῷ Σίμωνι Πέτρῳ ὁ Ἰησοῦς· Σίμων Ἰωνᾶ, ἀγαπᾷς με πλέον τούτων; Λέγει αὐτῷ· Ναὶ, Κύριε, σὺ οἶδας ὅτι . φιλῶ   σε.  Λέγει  αὐτῷ·  Βόσκε τὰ  πρόβατά  μου.  Καὶ  τί  δήποτε,  τοὺς  ἄλλους παραδραμὼν,  τούτῳ  περὶ τούτων  διαλέγεται;  Ἔκκριτος ἦν  τῶν  ἀποστόλων,  καὶ στόμα τῶν μαθητῶν, καὶ κορυφὴ τοῦ χοροῦ· διὰ τοῦτο καὶ Παῦλος ἀνέβη τότε αὐτὸν ἱστορῆσαι παρὰ τοὺς ἄλλους. Ἅμα δὲ καὶ δεικνὺς αὐτῷ, ὅτι χρὴ θαῤῥεῖν λοιπὸν, ὡς τῆς ἀρνήσεως ἐξεληλαμένης,  ἐγχειρίζεται  τὴν προστασίαν τῶν  ἀδελφῶν.  Καὶ τὴν μὲν  ἄρνησιν  οὐ προφέρει, οὐδὲ ὀνειδίζει  τὸ γεγονός·  λέγει  δὲ, ὅτι Εἰ φιλεῖς  με, προΐστασο  τῶν   ἀδελφῶν,   καὶ   τὴν   θερμὴν   ἀγάπην,  ἣν   διὰ   πάντων ἐπεδείκνυσο, καὶ ἐφ'  ᾗ ἠγαλλιάσω,  νῦν  δεῖξον
ΠΗΔΑΛΙΟΝ ΟΡΘΟΔΟΞΙΑΣ: ΠΗʹ  Ὅτε οὖν ἠρίστησαν, λέγει ὁ Ἰησοῦς τῷ Σίμωνι Πέτρῳ, (http://alavastron.blogspot.com/2016/10/Omilia-83.html)


In the below commentary it states that there is no such thing as promoting him to chief authority. He is meant to devote himself on protecting his brothers and not to be their leader.

Στὴν ἐν λόγῳ ὅμως ὁμιλία τοῦ Χρυσοστόμου δὲν παρατηρεῖται καμμία τέτοια τάση προαγωγῆς τοῦ ἀποστόλου σὲ ἡγεμονικὴ καὶ ἀπόλυτη θέση ἐπὶ τῶν ἄλλων. Ἀντιθέτως ὁ Χρυσόστομος ἐπισημαίνει ὅτι ὁ Κύριος ἀντιμετωπίζει τὸν Πέτρο μὲ ἰδιαίτερα προσωπικὸ τρόπο, «ἅμα δὲ καὶ δεικνὺς αὐτῷ, ὅτι χρὴ θαῤῥεῖν λοιπόν, ὡς τῆς ἀρνήσεως ἐξεληλαμένης ἐγχειρίζεται τὴν προστασίαν τῶν ἀδελφῶν». Ὁ Πέτρος φέρει ἀκόμη βαρέως τὸ στίγμα τῆς τριπλῆς του ἀρνήσεως, ἀπὸ τὸ ὁποῖο πρέπει νὰ ἀπαλλαγεῖ καὶ νὰ ἀφοσιωθεῖ στὴν «προστασία τῶν ἀδελφῶν» καὶ ὄχι στὴν ἡγεμονικὴ θέση ἐπ’ αὐτῶν.
https://ejournals.lib.auth.gr/kosmos/article/download/6092/5839
Title: St. John Chrysostom Homily 88 Excerpts
Post by: ksteier on 27 May, 2021, 16:44:52
Hi,

Thank you so much for your reply! I apologize for having exceeded the 12 words per phrase limit. I appreciate your providing the phrase in question for me as well.
I did read the link to New Advent on Homily 88 of the Gospel of John, but in it the translation says that he was given "chief authority" and so I wanted to verify if that was correct. Thank you for locating the other links as well.

If it's possible, could you translate this phrase?
"ἐγχειρίζεται  τὴν προστασίαν τῶν  ἀδελφῶν"
Title: St. John Chrysostom Homily 88 Excerpts
Post by: spiros on 27 May, 2021, 17:03:39
I can see:
And at the same time to show him that he must now be of good cheer, since the denial was done away, Jesus puts into his hands the chief authority among the brethren
CHURCH FATHERS: Homily 88 on the Gospel of John (Chrysostom) (https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/240188.htm)

But προστασία can also mean care, protection.
προστασία - Ancient Greek (LSJ) (https://lsj.gr/wiki/%CF%80%CF%81%CE%BF%CF%83%CF%84%CE%B1%CF%83%CE%AF%CE%B1)