Πίστις κελεύει -> Faith/trust gives the command

Rogo · 12 · 2651

Rogo

  • Semi-Newbie
  • *
    • Posts: 4
Hello,

We are trying to determine the the meaning of the words on the lower part of the crest.
I believe they translate to: piotio kelegel - but I have no idea what that means.

You can see the crest by visiting: http://www.sigmarho.org/home.htm

I appologize that I could not find a way to get the greek letters to post in the subject line. It would only show up a English.

Thank you
« Last Edit: 21 Aug, 2007, 17:14:52 by billberg23 »


billberg23

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 6006
    • Gender:Male
  • Words ail me.
The crest shows a poorly spelled ancient Greek phrase which should read πίστις κελεύει  (pistis keleuei).  It means "Faith (or trust) gives the command," i.e., something like "We rely on trust," or (better) "Faith/trust is the watchword."
« Last Edit: 21 Aug, 2007, 18:06:40 by billberg23 »



Rogo

  • Semi-Newbie
  • *
    • Posts: 4
Thanks,

That is very close to what we known it to be. How do I validate it from several sources. We can't change the spelling unless we are absolutely sure.

On another note, what would the name of the TTF used to create the letters. Anywhere to download that?


billberg23

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 6006
    • Gender:Male
  • Words ail me.
That is very close to what we known it to be.
How, then, do you translate the motto traditionally?  I can't imagine how it could be anything but πίστις κελεύει, but life is full of surprises.
P.S.  The Fontmaster here may have time to answer your question on TTF.



Rogo

  • Semi-Newbie
  • *
    • Posts: 4
Bilberg23,

You have no idea how much of a help you have been! Throughout the years fraternity members have known this to mean "Faith Commands". I sent our Coat of Arms to several translation places and they all came up with "they are not words".

You are the only one who has gotten it right but suggest that it is mispelled. I agree in that this is entirely possible. Our house has gone through 2 fires and my guess is someone used a poor translator tool or something to come up with our current spelling. Your guess on this would be much appreaciated, how they could arrive at that spelling.

But in order to change something that is currently on everything we have there would have to be some form of additional validation. Obviously these translation companies are using software or modern greek to decipher what it means.

Feel free to email me direct markrogalski(at)att.net. I need to get a few more validations that it is mispelled and have no idea who else to approach.
« Last Edit: 24 Aug, 2007, 03:06:30 by wings »


billberg23

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 6006
    • Gender:Male
  • Words ail me.
Dear Rogo, forty years of deciphering modern misspellings of ancient Greek inscriptions have taught me that the lower case letters are often confusing to those who don't know Greek.  Nu, gamma, and ypsilon (ν, γ, and υ) are often mistaken for one another (which is the case with your "κελεγει").  And non-Greeks often fail to distinguish between the mid-word sigma (σ) and the final sigma (ς) (which is the case with your "πιστισ").
The situation with your inscription would be obvious to any classical scholar like myself.  There are a few others here who read ancient Greek;  if, as you say, you need further validation for something so transparent, let's hope that they notice this post and step forward.
« Last Edit: 24 Aug, 2007, 06:29:18 by billberg23 »


wings

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 70682
    • Gender:Female
  • Vicky Papaprodromou
Hi, Bill.

What you suggested is so obvious that I thought I should not even participate in this discussion. There is no verb such as "κελέγει" in Ancient or Modern Greek. The only verb we are well aware of is "κελεύει".

Rogo, you should have no doubt about this misspelling.


F_idάνι

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 3077
    • Gender:Female
Which misspelling do you need validation for? ''piotio kelegel'' or the other one on your picture? I  can assure you, both are misspelled, that's why no other translation place could come up with a translation.
Billberg is the best, everything he says is double- and triple- checked and his knowledge is amazing, even we, Greeks, have a lot to learn from him.


user10

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1244
    • Gender:Female
I agree with Wings and with Findani. Bill's knowledge of Greek (of ancient Greek in particular) is excellent, so you should really take his opinion into account and use his version of the phrase rather than that provided by a free translation tool you may have come across on the Internet.

Btw: Again, as Bill said, the final sigma in lower-case Greek words ending in "s" is never "σ", but always "ς".


billberg23

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 6006
    • Gender:Male
  • Words ail me.
Rogo, it seems very likely that your motto was originally written in upper case (capital letters), thus:

ΠΙΣΤΙΣ ΚΕΛΕΥΕΙ

Written this way, the two sigmas in the first word are identical.  And the upper-case ypsilon (Y) bears a strong resemblance to a lower-case gamma (γ).  Finally, no accents are written in upper case, which would explain why they are missing in the lower-case misspelling.

So the problems arose when the motto was transferred to lower case by someone who didn't know Greek.  When you rewrite the inscription, it might be well to restore the original upper case, as above.



Rogo

  • Semi-Newbie
  • *
    • Posts: 4
First weekend of every August we have our Alumni Reunion. It's held at Sigma Rho in Chassell, MI. 7 acres on the lake with tennis courts, horseshoes, fishing and sailing, and great food. Open Bar!

You are all invited!

Mark Rogalski


billberg23

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 6006
    • Gender:Male
  • Words ail me.
Pity we just missed this year's gathering, but we'll look forward to next year.  Round-trip charter from Athens included, of course?


 

Search Tools