Author Topic: τὴν ἐλευθερίαν πᾶσι τοῖς Ἕλλησι παρέσχεν  (Read 2126 times)

xxbullxdozerxx

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Punctuation probably isn't right. I know it says something like "the freedom all the Helen maiden" or something? Maybe "The freedom of all the virtuous.. helens?" Haha I dunno.
« Last Edit: 06 May, 2008, 08:41:26 by billberg23 »


billberg23

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Υou'll want to check the principal parts of (παρ)έχω (here it's aorist), and the declension (plural) of Ἕλλην (you've already seen the nominative:  Ἕλληνες).  In the (theoretically) original form Ἕλλην-σι, the nu is lost by assimilation — i.e., the word was just easier to pronounce without the nu.

Congratulations on the Greek font!
« Last Edit: 06 May, 2008, 12:42:42 by wings »
Τί δέ τις; Τί δ' οὔ τις; Σκιᾶς ὄναρ ἄνθρωπος. — Πίνδαρος

xxbullxdozerxx

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Okay, so then now I have, "the freedom all the Helenites hand over"? I think I'm confused as to the meaning of Ellhsi.


billberg23

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So we'll be better able to serve you, bulldozer, give us some idea of where you are at this point in your study of Greek.  For example, have you been taught
1)  the word for "Greek"?
2)  the conjugation of the second aorist?
3)  the uses of the dative case?
4)  the third declension?
Τί δέ τις; Τί δ' οὔ τις; Σκιᾶς ὄναρ ἄνθρωπος. — Πίνδαρος

xxbullxdozerxx

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Oh, that's embarrassing. Greek. Duh. Haha it's 2 am and I've procrastinated so much.. I'm tired and not thinking straight.

I have no idea of the aorist and dative. I mean, I know they exist. I just.. am really, really bad at recognizing them. If I were any good at this Ancient Greek, I wouldn't be searching for help on my homework :( I'm sorry..
« Last Edit: 06 May, 2008, 09:13:31 by xxbullxdozerxx »

vbd.

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It would be beneficial if you provide more context (the sentence before the one you're looking to get translated) so that the translation is as accurate as possible. Of course it will help you understand what the writer is trying to say if you keep in mind the gist of the previous sentences as well.

For this sentence:

"πᾶσι" = to all. Here in plural and dative.
πᾶς, πᾶσα, πᾶν
Means usually "whole" in singular and "all" in plural.

"πᾶσι" of course is assigned to " Ἔλλησι" (both dative, right?)

PS: "παρέχω" usually means "provide/offer" and "generate/cause".

PS2:  οἱ  Ἕλληνες         the Greeks
        τῶν  Ἕλλήνων      of the Greeks
        τοῖς    Ἕλλησι       for/to the Greeks
        τούς  Ἕλληνας      the Greeks
                 Ἕλληνες      Greeks

Thats a rough translation for each case.
At last, I have peace.


xxbullxdozerxx

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Okay, then what I've come up with is "I, to those whom are present, will clearly reveal the true cause of the freedom provided to all the Greeks"

billberg23

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All cases in Greek (and in English, for that matter) have some sort of sign by which they can be recognized.  In English, for example, the sign of the possessive case is "s."  That's how we know that "his" means "of him," for example, while the "m" of "him" indicates that "he" is an object, not a subject.
So in Greek, the sign of the dative case is an iota lurking somewhere at the end of the word.  In ἀνθρώπῳ, for example, it dangles under the final omega.  In Ἕλλησι, it's right at the end of the word.
The dative case, here as (usually) elsewhere, indicates to or for whom (or which) something is said, given, or done.  In this case, it's "to the Hellenes."
On to verbs:
The aorist indicative is a simple past tense.  Most verbs have a first aorist, some verbs (like παρέχω) have a second aorist.  You have to know where, in your Greek grammar, to look for the conjugations of each.  How do you know which verbs have a second aorist?  Because when you learn a new verb, you learn its principal parts.  You can conjugate the English verb "go" in all tenses because you know its principal parts: go, went, gone.  Similarly, when you learn the very common verb ἔχω, you learn its principal parts:  ἔχω, ἕξω, ἔσχον.  And bingo, you see from that -ον ending that it has a second aorist.
Don't be discouraged.  Get some sleep.  Go to class and ask questions, no matter how painful it is.  Understand that by learning Greek you're learning more about your own language, and understanding the power that comes from clarity of thought.
Τί δέ τις; Τί δ' οὔ τις; Σκιᾶς ὄναρ ἄνθρωπος. — Πίνδαρος

xxbullxdozerxx

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I would love nothing more than to go to sleep right now.. but this stuff is all due tomorrow in the afternoon. Thank you for the rundown on dative and aorist, though- it's actually very helpful. You explain it so much better than my professor..

vbd.

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Okay, then what I've come up with is "I, to those whom are present, will clearly reveal the true cause of the freedom provided to all the Greeks"

Like we established in the other thread, in this case you translate "[...]will clearly reveal to you the true cause which procured freedom for all the Greeks."
At last, I have peace.