ὁ δὲ ναύτης ὁ γεραῖος "πρῶτον μὲν" ἔφη ...

xxbullxdozerxx

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I know the rules say to use the subject for what we need translated, but I can't possibly fit this all. I've figured out a good bit of it (it's about xerxes trying to subdue the Helenians during the Peloponnesian war), but I'm not very confident in my translation. I figured I'd see what you guys think. Haha this might not be very challenging to most of you out there, but I'm a first year ancient greek student with nothing but a crappy textbook glossary to help me. Here's an image of the page.

Greek homework

I wish I had a title like "Xerxes, king of the Persians" :)

There's 3 pages total, but the third one was fairly easy, and I'm pretty confident of the second one. If you guys don't mind going over this one, I could post the second page..

Thanks in advance. Unless you're all offended that I'm asking for help on my homework. In which case I'll back out of the room slowly.
« Last Edit: 06 May, 2008, 08:47:34 by billberg23 »


xxbullxdozerxx

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Oh, sorry guys. I didn't read the forum rules first, party foul on my part. I didn't know you'd only translate 12 words. I apologize.



billberg23

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We're not at all offended that you ask us for help on your homework;  on the contrary — that's what we're here for.  Of course, we're not going to do your homework for you, even if it was less than the 12-word limit.  If we did, none of us would really learn anything.  But we do stand ready to help you through any difficulties you may be having with the text.  So feel free to ask us specific questions about grammar, structure, or syntax — as many as you like! Just make sure that each question is posted separately.
« Last Edit: 06 May, 2008, 07:01:50 by billberg23 »


xxbullxdozerxx

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Alright, when I finish up this page, would it be acceptable for me to post what I think it says, and have you guys check it out for me? Cuz that'd be freaking awesome.



vbd.

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Alright, when I finish up this page, would it be acceptable for me to post what I think it says, and have you guys check it out for me?

Absolutely.
At last, I have peace.


billberg23

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Or, if it's more beneficial, you might try this first:  find the phrase that's giving you the most trouble, and tell us why.  After we discuss it with you, you can send us a second post about the second most difficult phrase, etc.  I guarantee you'll learn a lot of Greek that way.


xxbullxdozerxx

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Uhh hey guys. Hmm perhaps it's blatantly obvious, and I'll feel dumb for asking this later.. but how the hell do I type what I need help in using the greek alphabet? Is it someplace on this site? I perused the rules, hoping something might be there, but if it is, I missed it.

In the event that I have to install some sort of font program or something, will transliterations do? For example, the passage I'm having trouble on right now is this (transliterating to the best of my ability): "o de nautes o geraios, "proton men" ephe, "boulomai umin peri tes ton athenaion aretes te kai tolmes eipein."

I've got "and the old sailor, 'first(?)', he said, 'I wish to tell you(pl) of the courage and virtue of the Athenians"

This seems right. Would me asking questions in this format be okay, or do I have to get some greek font?


billberg23

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You're communicating just fine, bulldozer, with the transliteration.  And you've rightly surmised that πρῶτον, neuter singular of πρῶτος, can be used adverbially to mean "first(ly)."  Next problem?

If you want to download a Greek font, check the very bottom of the Translatum.gr home page.  Also, if you're running XP, you've already got a nice Greek polytonic font:  all you have to do is activate it.


xxbullxdozerxx

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Alright, this time I come to you with a page and with my try at translation. Here is the page (you'll have to excuse my chicken scratch all over the place).

Greek Homework

And here's what I've gathered from it.

Virtue Always Defeats Pride

And the old sailor said, "Firstly, I wish to tell you of the courage and virtue of the Athenians. I, to those whom are present, will clearly reveal the true cause or all the Greeks will hand over their freedom. (That part doesn't make sense to me, I'm assuming it's wrong.) We, living free for all of our lives, thought it is not necessary that we fight barbarians over (all the Greek's freedom) <----?

"But our ancestors established a beautiful government. In other nations the citizens had tyrannies and oligarchies. We were not thinking it fitting that slaves and masters have the same equality of political rights (I don't know this word - ezhtoumen) according to law. We are dear to one another and are all free, and we were yielding to nothing except for the notion of true virtue."

I've kind of got most of it, I think, but the end of both paragraphs confused me.


xxbullxdozerxx

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Alright, since that other sentence from the other thread was corrected for me, I'll have to change it. Actually, I think I understand it less now. "I, to those whom are present, will clearly reveal the true cause of the freedom provided to all the Greeks"?


billberg23

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For starters, bulldozer, review the relative pronouns.  Ἐγὼ ὅς... = "I who..." and αἰτίαν ἥ... = "cause which..."


vbd.

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And the old sailor said, "Firstly, I wish to tell you of the courage and the virtue of the Athenians*. I, to those whom are present who was there**, will clearly reveal the true cause(s) or all the Greeks will hand over their freedom*** which generated**** peace for the Greeks. Because (γάρ) we, living completely (ἐν πᾶσῃ) free for all of our lives, thought it IS not necessary that we fight barbarians over all the Greek's freedom.

"But our ancestors established a beautiful government. In other nations the citizens had tyrannies and oligarchies. We were not thinking it fitting that slaves and masters have the same equality of political rights according to law. We, however, didn't think it was correct for one to be slave or ruler to somebody else; instead, we pursued equality before the lawFor (γάρ) we are were dear to one another and are we were all free, and we were yielding to nothing except for the notion of true virtue."

You weren't careful in some parts, namely in the part where you saw a "not" that isn't there and the part where you said "are" instead of "were". The more texts you translate/work on, the faster and easier it is going to become!

*"τέ" together with "καί" basically means "and", but it's more powerful than "καί".
So for example

Greeks and Barbarians = Ἕλληνες καί βάρβαροι.
Both Greeks AND Barbarians = Ἕλληνες τέ καί βάρβαροι.

**You see, the sailor was old, and is apparently talking to younger people who weren't alive when the things he is describing were going on!

***"ἥ" means "which" (feminine). "or" would be "ἤ"

****I couldn't find a better way to translate this phrase word to word. It means: I will reveal to you the reason for which the Greeks lived in peace. Or the reason which made the Greeks free. I will reveal to you why the Greeks are free.
Of course it's better not to translate word to word, but that will only come with experience.

Finally I'd like to say that obviously some parts in this text are hard for a beginner so don't be discouraged.
« Last Edit: 06 May, 2008, 10:29:46 by ev1H »
At last, I have peace.


xxbullxdozerxx

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Wow, that was way more comprehensive than I expected. Thanks a million, ev1H. Out of all the languages I've taken, ancient greek is by far the most difficult.. perhaps because I never get to practice speaking it? Spanish, Portuguese and German were all easy as pie to pick up, and, knowing spanish and portuguese, latin was easy to learn, too.. Greek, on the other hand, is completely different from anything I've ever done!


billberg23

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will clearly reveal the true cause(s) or all the Greeks will hand over their freedom*** which generated**** peace for the Greeks.
This should read " will clearly reveal to you the true cause which procured freedom for all the Greeks."

Sorry I fell asleep and couldn't catch it in time.


vmelas

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Sorry I fell asleep and couldn't catch it in time.

Shame on you! you fell asleep? :P .... why? did you ask for permission? :P
*softly nudging billberg giggling*


 

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