οὐ γὰρ συμφύεται τὰ πεπηγότα ὤσπερ τὰ ὑγρά (Aristotle, Meteorologica 348a.14) -> since solid bodies/frozen drops cannot coalesce like liquid ones

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marcel

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I am looking for the origins of the latin quote "corpora non agunt nisi fluida". The article from Hedvall, J. A. Zeitschrift fuer anorganische Chemie 258, 1949, p. 180 gave the hint, that its from aristotle's meteorologica. But unfortunately he didn't mention the page.
I found something promising in book I, chapter XII (348a, 14) but I have no idea if that is the line I am looking for. It should be something like: solid bodies cannot coalesce like liquid ones.

thanks,
Marcel
« Last Edit: 30 Jan, 2019, 11:47:43 by spiros »


Offline wings

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Hello Marcel.

You are right about Aristotle. The meaning is quite close to what you mentioned. But the correct phrase is "ου γαρ συμφύεται τα πεπηγότα ώσπερ τα υγρά". And your Latin phrase is the same principle. Here is a webpage providing a clear explanation:

Aristoteles: „corpora non agunt nisi fluida seu soluta“

Compounds that are not fluid or dissolved, do not react 

J. B. Karsten (1843): „Philosophy  of Chemistry“

The reaction of two heterogeneous, solid, and under certain conditions reactive compounds can only occur if one of them can be transformed into a fluid induced by the interaction between the two compounds at a given temperature or due to pressure increased temperature, which then will induce the fluid state in the other compound.“     
http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:Dx9cScZXAWEJ:www.uni-regensburg.de/Fakultaeten/nat_Fak_III/GK/SP/download/SS2003/Steinem_SECM.ppt+corpora+non+agunt+nisi+fluida&hl=el&client=firefox-a

All the best for the weekend,

Vicky




marcel

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Thanks a lot. I really appreciate your quick response. It seems that I am on the right way. But I am still in doubt, because Hedvall wrote in his article, that aristotle's formulation is much moderate than the latin version.
Hedvall quote him "ta hygra meikta malista ton somaton" and translated: es sind vor allem die fluessigen Stoffe, die reagieren (particularly the liquid compounds are reacting). I tried to find this quote and checked every context with "soma", but it was fruitless (due to my poor knowledge in greek I can't exclude the possibility that I just missed it). My guess at the time is that Hedvall refers to another edition of the text.

The only sentence which came close to this topic was in the passage of hail (book 1, part 12; Bekker page 348a, 12).
Google leads with the following key words to the greek text:
aristoteles corpus aristotelicum meteorologica tlg

And I found different translations for this sentence

a)
"This cannot take place in the case of hail, since solid bodies cannot coalesce like liquid ones."
Aristotle, Meteorology; Translated by E. W. Webster
http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/meteorology.1.i.html

b)
"This cannot take place in the case of hail, because frozen drops cannot coalesce like liquid ones."
Aristotle, Meteorologica; Translated by H. D. P. Lee
Loeb classical library, VII, No. 397

In my opinion it makes a difference to say "solid bodies" or "frozen drops" which much more specific. I would like to know, if aristotle is precize like that, or if he just talks about "solid bodies" in general which cannot react (or coalesce) like liquid entities.

cheers to all!
Marcel
« Last Edit: 21 Mar, 2005, 04:39:25 by marcel »


 

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