ἐτίμων οἱ γέροντες τοῦτον τὸν ῥήτορα, ὄς γε ἄνευ τοῦ γράμματα γράφειν τοὺς νεανίας λόγοις διδάσκοι περὶ τῶν τῆς βουλῆς καί τῆς ἐκκλησίας πραγμάτων. οὕτως γὰρ πεπαιδευμένοι ἦρχον ἁπασῶν τῶν νήσων.

Jorsay · 8 · 1237

Jorsay

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I am nine years old and trying to study ancient Greek.  It seems to me that γράφειν should be imperfect because it is a conditional sentence with an imperfect verb in the first clause.  Please help.

Also, does anyone know how I can type smooth and rough breathing marks and circumflex accent marks?
« Last Edit: 25 Feb, 2009, 03:22:51 by billberg23 »




vbd.

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I'm sure somebody will help with the breathing marks, but what I did was go to the Language Options in Windows, chose Greek as the language, and Ancient Greek as they "keyboard layout". After that, using the keys for []/.,;'=- and the such you can add all marks.

γράφειν is fine. You should know that the tense in such cases has a relative value, and I mean relative to the verb. The present tense indicates contemporaneousness to the verb. Accordingly a tense with "past" value would indicate that the action is prior to the one described by the verb, and a future tense would indicate that the action is latter.
You'll find a clearer and more thorough explanation here: billberg23 describes things much more eloquently than I ever could.
At last, I have peace.


billberg23

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It seems to me that γράφειν should be imperfect because it is a conditional sentence with an imperfect verb in the first clause.
Γράφειν is an infinitive being used as a noun (as the infinitive often is).  Though it can't be declined like an ordinary noun, it can be modified by an article in the appropriate case, like your genitive τοῦ here.  So ἄνευ τοῦ γράμματα γράφειν here means literally "without the to-write-letters." which we have to translate as "without writing letters."

As for your font questions — when you type Greek, do you select "Greek polytonic"?  If so, I can tell you exactly which keys to type for the diacritical marks.
« Last Edit: 25 Feb, 2009, 03:29:04 by billberg23 »



Jorsay

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Thank you.

My dad and I have translated the entire phrase as "The old men honored this public speaker who without writing letters taught the young men with words about the deeds of the council and the assembly. For having been educated in this way they (the young men) ruled over nearly all the islands."

Do you agree that I am correct?  Please suggest any corrections, no matter how small.

Thank you.


billberg23

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Without having your textbook in hand, it's hard for us to know what grammatical points Hardy Hanson was trying to illustrate by composing this sentence.  The fact that he used the optative in διδάσκοι hints at a potential implication:  "The old men used to honor that public speaker who might (or would) teach the young men etc.," i.e., they preferred any teacher of rhetoric who used oral methods.

Otherwise, your translation is fine, except in the following details:  πραγμάτων simply refers to "affairs" ("business," "agenda"), and there's no implication of "nearly" in ἁπασῶν.
« Last Edit: 25 Feb, 2009, 22:36:34 by billberg23 »




 

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