Author Topic: πρὸ τῆς μάχης ἐκείνας τὰς αἶγας τὰς καλὰς θεῷ τῷ τὸν δῆμον σώσαντι ἐθυσὰμεθα. τούτῳ γὰρ τῷ τρόπῳ ἐσῲζοντο οἵ θ' ἡγεμόνες και οἱ  (Read 1002 times)

jmorsay

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I think this means "Before the battle we sacuficed for ourselves these goats which are good to the god who saved the people because the rulers and other men were saved by that  character."

Please fix my translation.

thank you
« Last Edit: 13 Mar, 2009, 04:29:54 by billberg23 »


vbd.

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Before the battle, we sacrificed these fine goats to the god who saved the people. And in this way both* the leaders and the others were saved.

I assume you translated ἐθυσάμεθα as sacrificed for ourselves because it is in the middle voice. I don't think that's needed here, and I'm not sure why the author chose ἐθυσάμεθα instead of ἐθύσαμεν. You might want to check out the use of θύω in the middle voice here. Maybe Bill can explain why it's in the middle voice?

I think you should make it perfectly clear that "τάς καλάς" is in no way connected to "θεῷ". The goats aren't good for the gods, they're just good, fine.

Also, it should be "σώσαντι", not "σώσαναντι". I'd rather translate "ἡγεμών" as "leader" rather than "ruler". How did you come up with "character"? "τρόπος" almost always means "way". τούτῳ τῷ τρόπῳ is very clear. It means "in this way", "thus". Accordingly "τίνι τρόπῳ;" would mean "how?".
*The reason why I wrote "both" is that "θ'" in front of "ἡγεμόνες". The word is "τε", and it changed to "θ'" because the following word begins with a vowel. The "τε... και" construction is almost like "και... και", but stronger. I think it's good to translate the "τε" constructions using "both" so that it's obvious that you noticed it and know what exactly it means.
« Last Edit: 13 Mar, 2009, 09:58:00 by spiros »
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billberg23

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I assume you translated ἐθυσάμεθα as sacrificed for ourselves because it is in the middle voice. I don't think that's needed here, and I'm not sure why the author chose ἐθυσάμεθα instead of ἐθύσαμεν.
It may be because Hansen wants to get JM used to the idea of indirect agency often implicit in the middle voice.  The authors themselves didn't sacrifice the goats, but they "had them sacrificed" or "got them sacrificed" (e.g. by the officiating priests).  So "We had those fine goats sacrificed to the god etc."

Again, JM, note that ἐκεῖνος is almost always to be translated "that," by contrast with οὗτος or ὄδε, which mean "this."
« Last Edit: 13 Mar, 2009, 09:58:12 by spiros »
Τί δέ τις; Τί δ' οὔ τις; Σκιᾶς ὄναρ ἄνθρωπος. — Πίνδαρος


jmorsay

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 The word character was in the text book. In the text book the word, "τρόπῳ" is way, manner or character.




  Thanks for fixing my translation.