Author Topic: [σώματρον]  (Read 1873 times)

raggar

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[σώματρον]
« on: 20 Mar, 2009, 09:21:31 »
οοματρον

It is probably Ancient Greek word.

I suppose the translation is "the device which is preserving a soul/memory", but I need to double-check.
I also would be grateful if somebody have ever came across this term in any ancient text and could point me which where to look for.

Thank you!
« Last Edit: 21 Mar, 2009, 04:34:54 by billberg23 »


spiros

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Re: οοματρον
« Reply #1 on: 20 Mar, 2009, 11:01:31 »
Not a Greek word as far as I know. Where did you find this?

raggar

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Re: οοματρον
« Reply #2 on: 20 Mar, 2009, 21:36:48 »
Thank you!
This word was given to me, but I wasn't given any hints or clues of what does it mean.
It happens a lot of times, when the person teaching you wants you to find the answer by yourself.
By semantics I concluded that it should be a Greek word.
By meaning.. well, if you believe in modern historians' theories that human Civilization is only about 8,000-7,000 yrs old than meaning is really out of context.
Why I think that's more or less precise translation:

ooma-

Plato "Cratylus" quote:
"...That may be variously interpreted; and yet more variously if a little permutation is allowed. For some say that the body is the grave
(sema) of the soul which may be thought to be buried in our present life; or again the index of the soul, because the soul gives
indications to (semainei) the body; probably the Orphic poets were the inventors of the name, and they were under the impression that the
soul is suffering the punishment of sin, and that the body is an enclosure or prison in which the soul is incarcerated, kept safe
(soma, sozetai), as the name ooma implies, until the penalty is paid; according to this view, not even a letter of the word need be changed..."

-tron, -tronic. (Greek: a suffix; device, tool, instrument; more generally, used in the names of any kind of chamber or apparatus used in experiments)


spiros

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Re: οοματρον
« Reply #3 on: 20 Mar, 2009, 21:44:34 »
There is nothing like ooma in Greek, there is soma, meaning body, and somation, which is a corpuscle.


σῶμα 1 deriv. uncertain
I. [select] the body of a man: in Hom. always the dead body, corpse, carcase, whereas the living body is δέμας.
2. [select] the living body, Hes., Hdt., attic; τὸ ς. σώζειν or -εσθαι to save one's life, Dem., Thuc.; ἔχειν τὸ ς. κακῶς, ὡς βέλτιστα, to be in a bad, a good state of body, Xen.
3. [select] body, as opp. to the soul (ψυχή), Plat., etc.; τὰ τοῦ ς. ἔργα bodily labours, Xen.; τὰ εἰς τὸ ς. τιμήματα bodily punishments, Aeschin.
II. [select] periphr., ἀνθρώπου σῶμα ῀ ἄνθρωπος, Hdt.; esp. in Trag., σῶμα θηρός ῀ ὁ θήρ, Soph., etc.:—often of slaves, ς. αἰχμάλωτα Dem., etc
III. [select] generally, a body, i. e. any material substance, Plat., etc.
IV. [select] the whole body or mass of a thing, ὑπὸ σώματι γῆς Aesch.; τὸ ς. τῆς πίστεως the body of the proof, Arist.
1 sw=ma, atos, to/,

σωμᾰ/τιον
σωμᾰ/τ-ιον, τό, Dim. of σῶμα,
small body, poor body, Isoc.Ep.4.11, Epicur.Fr.181, Gnathaena ap.Ath.13.584b, etc.; ἀσθένεια τοῦ ς. PHerc.1041.1; of a sick man's body, PCair.Zen.254 (iii B.C.), Gal.13.1025, cf. Agathin. ap. Orib.10.7.4; of an animal, Arist.Fr.339; of an infant, Sor.1.117.
corpse, Plu.2.119b, Pap.inStud.Ital.12(1935).99 (ii A.D.), PLips.30.13 (iii A.D.), Hdn.2.1.1.
slave, PSI6.602.2 (iii B.C.), PCair.Zen.93.11 (iii B.C.), PUniv.Giss.20.14 (ii A.D.), etc.
of things,
small body, corpuscle, Arist.de An.409a11, HA525a2.
pl., padding, used by actors to improve their figure, Pl. Com.256, Luc.JTr.41, Poll.2.235,4.115.
book, volume, Heraclit.All.1, Porph.Plot.26; structure of a poem, Longin.9.13.
text, opp. signature, PGen.11.18,68.18 (iv A.D.).
instalment of a sum due, PEleph.14.21 (iii B.C.).-σωμᾰτ-σωμάτειον is freq. v.l., cf. CIG2829.9, 2835.5 (Aphrodisias).

LSJ
« Last Edit: 20 Mar, 2009, 22:26:00 by spiros »

spiros

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Re: οοματρον
« Reply #4 on: 20 Mar, 2009, 21:56:41 »
And here is the correct source:

[400c] their notion being that the soul is buried in the present life; and again, because by its means the soul gives any signs which it gives, it is for this reason also properly called “sign” (σῆμα). But I think it most likely that the Orphic poets gave this name, with the idea that the soul is undergoing punishment for something; they think it has the body as an enclosure to keep it safe, like a prison, and this is, as the name itself denotes, the safe (σῶμα) for the soul, until the penalty is paid, and not even a letter needs to be changed.

[400ξ]  τις παρακλίνῃ, καὶ πάνυ. καὶ γὰρ σῆμά τινές φασιν αὐτὸ εἶναι τῆς ψυχῆς, ὡς τεθαμμένης ἐν τῷ νῦν παρόντι: καὶ διότι αὖ τούτῳ σημαίνει ἃ ἂν σημαίνῃ ἡ ψυχή, καὶ ταύτῃ “σῆμα” ὀρθῶς καλεῖσθαι. δοκοῦσι μέντοι μοι μάλιστα θέσθαι οἱ ἀμφὶ Ὀρφέα τοῦτο τὸ ὄνομα, ὡς δίκην διδούσης τῆς ψυχῆς ὧν δὴ ἕνεκα δίδωσιν, τοῦτον δὲ περίβολον ἔχειν, ἵνα σῴζηται, δεσμωτηρίου εἰκόνα: εἶναι οὖν τῆς ψυχῆς τοῦτο, ὥσπερ αὐτὸ ὀνομάζεται, ἕως ἂν ἐκτείσῃ τὰ ὀφειλόμενα, [τὸ] “σῶμα,” καὶ οὐδὲν δεῖν παράγειν οὐδ᾽ ἓν γράμμα.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text.jsp?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0172:text=Crat.:section=400c&highlight=safe
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text.jsp?doc=Plat.+Crat.+400c&fromdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0171

As you can see, it is a typo, it should be σῶμα (soma), not ooma.
« Last Edit: 20 Mar, 2009, 22:00:14 by spiros »

billberg23

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Re: οοματρον
« Reply #5 on: 20 Mar, 2009, 22:23:14 »
So you mean someone has invented the word "somatron" (as if from σώματρον)?  Ha ha ~ what won't they think of next?! ((-:
Τί δέ τις; Τί δ' οὔ τις; Σκιᾶς ὄναρ ἄνθρωπος. — Πίνδαρος


spiros

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Re: [σώματρον]
« Reply #6 on: 20 Mar, 2009, 22:25:30 »
Lol, indeed!

raggar

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Re: [σώματρον]
« Reply #7 on: 20 Mar, 2009, 23:49:01 »
Thank you, Spiros!
That was very fast and helpful!
I couldn't know there was a typo...

billberg23

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Re: [σώματρον] -> particle generator
« Reply #8 on: 21 Mar, 2009, 00:16:02 »
Where do you get "particle generator," raggar?  Isn't that a cyclotron?  According to Google, "Somatron" is the brand name for a "music mattress"!  :
http://www.google.com/search?q=somatron&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7SUNA
« Last Edit: 21 Mar, 2009, 00:17:56 by billberg23 »
Τί δέ τις; Τί δ' οὔ τις; Σκιᾶς ὄναρ ἄνθρωπος. — Πίνδαρος

raggar

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Re: [σώματρον] -> particle generator
« Reply #9 on: 21 Mar, 2009, 03:59:41 »
I am not talking about any modern brand names
This word survived, this word existed before
I'm just trying to understand it's meaning, one of which could be a "device for particle (generation? study?)"
or for example "the device for material substance (converting? preserving? ...?)"
And the first letter substitution "s" by "o" (if it happened) is not that strange
While copying book (by hand) many times through many generations it is possible to mistaken sigma and omega
because they look very much alike, especially if you are foreigner and may not know what you are copying

billberg23

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Re: [σώματρον] -> particle generator
« Reply #10 on: 21 Mar, 2009, 04:33:38 »
This word survived, this word existed before.
Not in ancient or modern Greek, that's for sure!
Quote
I'm just trying to understand it's meaning, one of which could be a "device for particle (generation? study?)"
or for example "the device for material substance (converting? preserving? ...?)"
What source or authority are you using, raggar?
Τί δέ τις; Τί δ' οὔ τις; Σκιᾶς ὄναρ ἄνθρωπος. — Πίνδαρος

raggar

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Re: [σώματρον]
« Reply #11 on: 21 Mar, 2009, 05:39:34 »
The voices within me
That's not scientifically credible source, but I trust Them