Author Topic: The two most powerful warriors are patience and fortitude -> Ἀνδρεία καρτερία τε κράτιστοι σύμμαχοι  (Read 5093 times)

gnothikai

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The two most powerful warriors are patience and fortitude.

So, a very close friend of mine was just released from a two week admittance in the hospital. Following the unpleasant experience, she has decided to get a tattoo of Greek script to mark the ordeal and her diagnosis. The quote is a meshing of Emerson and Tolstoy because she couldn't decide which she preferred. I don't know if this will be the final decision or not, but I said I would help track down a legit translation for it. Any help would be greatly appreciated and hopefully this is the appropriate spot for this thread. Thanks!
« Last Edit: 01 May, 2009, 03:35:51 by billberg23 »


vmelas

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Re: The two most powerful warriors are patience and fortitude
« Reply #1 on: 25 Apr, 2009, 09:08:32 »
She wants the tattoo in modern or ancient Greek?

In modern Greek the translation would be: Οι δυο πιο ισχυροί πολεμιστές είναι η υπομονή και η ευψυχία.

Thomas

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Re: The two most powerful warriors are patience and fortitude
« Reply #2 on: 25 Apr, 2009, 10:04:02 »
Ή οι δυο πιο δυνατοί πολεμιστές είναι η υπομονή και η γενναιότητα (συγγνώμη Βαλεντίνη για την εισβολή στα χωράφια σου).


vmelas

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Re: The two most powerful warriors are patience and fortitude
« Reply #3 on: 25 Apr, 2009, 10:44:06 »
...  (συγγνώμη Βαλεντίνη για την εισβολή στα χωράφια σου).

Γιατί συγγνώμη; Αφού εγώ σχεδόν πάντα μπαίνω στα δικά σου (σε ορισμένα παρτέρια, βλ. ιατρικές συσκευές, στεντ, καρδιακά, κτλ) :)

gnothikai

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Re: The two most powerful warriors are patience and fortitude
« Reply #4 on: 27 Apr, 2009, 18:03:19 »
She wants the tattoo in modern or ancient Greek?

In modern Greek the translation would be: Οι δυο πιο ισχυροί πολεμιστές είναι η υπομονή και η ευψυχία.

Whoops. I meant to specify ancient.

billberg23

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Re: The two most powerful warriors are patience and fortitude
« Reply #5 on: 27 Apr, 2009, 19:03:56 »
Whoops. I meant to specify ancient.
Then some kind moderator needs to switch this topic to the "English -> Ancient Greek" board.
Τί δέ τις; Τί δ' οὔ τις; Σκιᾶς ὄναρ ἄνθρωπος. — Πίνδαρος


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Re: The two most powerful warriors are patience and fortitude
« Reply #6 on: 27 Apr, 2009, 19:27:48 »
Done!

billberg23

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Re: The two most powerful warriors are patience and fortitude
« Reply #7 on: 28 Apr, 2009, 03:05:06 »
Your quotation is a slight twist on Emerson's "Patience and fortitude conquer all things."  I'll twist it futher to give it a Euripidean flavor:

Ἀνδρεία καρτερία τε κράτιστοι σύμμαχοι.

which means, "Fortitude and patience are the mightiest allies."
Τί δέ τις; Τί δ' οὔ τις; Σκιᾶς ὄναρ ἄνθρωπος. — Πίνδαρος

gnothikai

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Re: The two most powerful warriors are patience and fortitude
« Reply #8 on: 28 Apr, 2009, 04:05:32 »
Your quotation is a slight twist on Emerson's "Patience and fortitude conquer all things."  I'll twist it futher to give it a Euripidean flavor:

Ἀνδρεία καρτερία τε κράτιστοι σύμμαχοι.

which means, "Fortitude and patience are the mightiest allies."

Mostly a twist on Leo Tolstoy's "The two most powerful warriors are patience and time." Only time was replaced with Emerson's fortitude. Maybe to make it more appropriate to the situation the altered version symbolizes. I'll pitch this idea to her and see what she thinks. Thanks! And thanks for moving me around-- I wasn't entirely sure where to be with this topic.

gnothikai

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Re: The two most powerful warriors are patience and fortitude
« Reply #9 on: 17 Jul, 2010, 08:35:16 »

I am resurrecting this topic from the dead. My tattoo deadline is coming up. I've had some other insightful translations from a professor, but I'm still not content with the "twists". I'm looking for something more literal but poetic for: "Patience and fortitude are the mightiest warriors (or allies)". Without too much masculine connotation. A nice rhythm, long-short-long...long-short-long-long. The -ototoi superlatives seem kinda clunky, as well as the -osune nouns.

The problem with Ἀνδρεία is that I was told it literally translates into "manliness", and καρτερία seems bland for the idea she is trying to convey...καρτερία translating into more like the strength a playground bully has.

Any new insight on the phrase in question would be much appreciated!

billberg23

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Re: The two most powerful warriors are patience and fortitude
« Reply #10 on: 17 Jul, 2010, 09:03:53 »
καρτερία translating into more like the strength a playground bully has.
Good grief, I wonder where that information came from!  Check the most authoritative ancient Greek dictionary (Liddell & Scott):
καρτερ-ία, ἡ,
patient endurance, perseverance, opp. μαλακία, X.Cyr.8.8.15, cf. Pl.La.192b, al.; κ. ἡ περὶ τοὺς πόνους D.H.2.28; distd. from ἐγκράτεια (self-control), Arist.EN1150b1: pl., εἴ πού τινες . . κ. πρὸς ἅπαντα . . λέγονται Pl.R.390d.
Τί δέ τις; Τί δ' οὔ τις; Σκιᾶς ὄναρ ἄνθρωπος. — Πίνδαρος

gnothikai

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Re: The two most powerful warriors are patience and fortitude
« Reply #11 on: 17 Jul, 2010, 22:11:46 »
Good grief, I wonder where that information came from!  Check the most authoritative ancient Greek dictionary (Liddell & Scott):
καρτερ-ία, ἡ,
patient endurance, perseverance, opp. μαλακία, X.Cyr.8.8.15, cf. Pl.La.192b, al.; κ. ἡ περὶ τοὺς πόνους D.H.2.28; distd. from ἐγκράτεια (self-control), Arist.EN1150b1: pl., εἴ πού τινες . . κ. πρὸς ἅπαντα . . λέγονται Pl.R.390d.


He's probably looking at the phrase from a poetic standpoint, as his emphasis of study has been on ancient Greek poetry.

Here is the version he came up with:



My classics friend is more concerned with the rhythm of the spoken words, and I the physical appearance of the overall phrase. I'm not opposed to Ἀνδρεία καρτερία τε κράτιστοι σύμμαχοι, were it not for the masculine connotations of Ἀνδρεία.


billberg23

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Re: The two most powerful warriors are patience and fortitude
« Reply #12 on: 18 Jul, 2010, 03:11:52 »
My classics friend is more concerned with the rhythm of the spoken words, and I the physical appearance of the overall phrase.
And I with intelligibility (grammar & syntax).  The two dangling infinitives won't work, unless you put an article in front of at least the first one:  σύμμαχοι παγκρατεῖς τὸ τλᾶν τε καὶ θαρσεῖν makes sense as "all-powerful allies are daring and boldness."
BTW, if we're going to abandon "patience" entirely, you might consider using the motto of Alexander the Great:  https://www.translatum.gr/forum/index.php?topic=20746.0.  
« Last Edit: 18 Jul, 2010, 03:17:26 by billberg23 »
Τί δέ τις; Τί δ' οὔ τις; Σκιᾶς ὄναρ ἄνθρωπος. — Πίνδαρος

gnothikai

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Re: The two most powerful warriors are patience and fortitude
« Reply #13 on: 18 Jul, 2010, 05:36:29 »
And I with intelligibility (grammar & syntax).  The two dangling infinitives won't work, unless you put an article in front of at least the first one:  σύμμαχοι παγκρατεῖς τὸ τλᾶν τε καὶ θαρσεῖν makes sense as "all-powerful allies are daring and boldness."
BTW, if we're going to abandon "patience" entirely, you might consider using the motto of Alexander the Great:  https://www.translatum.gr/forum/index.php?topic=20746.0.  

Both stray even further from the original conveyance. I'm fond of your original translation, however, it's Ἀνδρεία that still deters me. It doesn't seem like a fit for 'fortitude' in the sense i wish to use it. That sense being... physical fortitude more along the lines of stamina or even generic as physical strength, I suppose would be a better simplification. Any thoughts on a better fitting noun? ἀλκή or ἀλκί?

billberg23

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Ἀλκή tends to refer to bodily strength only.  To entirely avoid that whiff of testosterone, try θάρσος (courage, boldness).  Methinks it suits your purpose well.
Τί δέ τις; Τί δ' οὔ τις; Σκιᾶς ὄναρ ἄνθρωπος. — Πίνδαρος