Author Topic: we diagnose therefore we are -> διαγιγνώσκομεν· ἐσμὲν ἄρα δή  (Read 452 times)

spiros

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we diagnose therefore we are -> διαγιγνώσκομεν ἀνθʼ ὧν ἐσμέν;
« Last Edit: 18 May, 2019, 15:51:12 by billberg23 »


billberg23

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διότι διαγιγνώσκομεν ἄνθρωποί ἐσμεν
Τί δέ τις; Τί δ' οὔ τις; Σκιᾶς ὄναρ ἄνθρωπος. — Πίνδαρος

spiros

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Interesting structure, so I guess there is no clear-cut equivalent of "therefore" https://lsj.gr/wiki/therefore


billberg23

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There are of course many ways of saying "therefore" in Greek, all of which have to do with causality:  "such and such is the case, which therefore makes so and so exist."  In the sentence you bring forward, however, causality does not play a role.  The act of diagnosis does not cause being:  instead, it is an activity through which we recognize our existence (as human beings).  In other words, diagnosis is a sign through which we know that we exist as diagnosing entities.  So οὖν etc. won't work here.  Latin is much looser:  so Descartes could say cogito ergo sum and mean "I think, and thus draw the conclusion that I am."  Ergo can play that game for him.  Ancient Greek can't do that with οὖν etc.
BTW the ancient Greeks might have understood what Descartes was getting at, but probably wouldn't be able to make any sense of "we diagnose therefore we are."  For them, diagnostics was a given, and being was a given, but it wouldn't have occurred to them to interrelate the two.
« Last Edit: 18 May, 2019, 09:59:03 by billberg23 »
Τί δέ τις; Τί δ' οὔ τις; Σκιᾶς ὄναρ ἄνθρωπος. — Πίνδαρος

spiros

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Yes, I understand about the semantics, but my point here is not the specific concepts but the grammatical structure, it could just as well be "I think therefore I am" which in Modern Greek replicates the same structure pretty straightforwardly "σκέπτομαι, άρα υπάρχω". What would that be in Ancient Greek, "διότι σκέπτομαι ἄνθρωπος εἰμί"?

billberg23

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I'd settle for ὅτι διανοοῦμαι, εἰμὶ δή.  As for your hypothetical sentence, bearing in mind that ἄρα is used quite differently in ancient Greek (for one thing, it's always postpositive), I'll change my translation to διαγιγνώσκομεν· ἐσμὲν ἄρα δή.  Thanks for your patience, and for helping me to think this out. 
Τί δέ τις; Τί δ' οὔ τις; Σκιᾶς ὄναρ ἄνθρωπος. — Πίνδαρος


spiros

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« Last Edit: 18 May, 2019, 15:56:13 by spiros »