τίνας ἀπέκτεινας, ὦ ἀφρονεστάτη θύγατερ; -> You are completely out of your mind, daughter! Who are those you have killed?

Offline jmorsay

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My translation: Who did you kill , Most foolish daughter.

Is this correct?

I couldn't find a way to translate   "ὦ ἀφρονεστατη θύγατερ" any better.

thank you
« Last Edit: 06 Oct, 2010, 00:55:59 by spiros »


Offline billberg23

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"Who" doesn't go very far in translating the accusative plural τίνας.  How about "What (or which) people"?
"Most foolish" isn't incorrect, as long as you understand that ἀφρονεστἀτη is a superlative of ἄφρων, an adjective formed from ἀ- ("not," "non-," "without") plus φρήν ("mind," "sense").  "Craziest" would also be a good translation.
« Last Edit: 03 Oct, 2010, 06:54:23 by billberg23 »
Τί δέ τις; Τί δ' οὔ τις; Σκιᾶς ὄναρ ἄνθρωπος. — Πίνδαρος



Offline wandle

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ὦ ἀφρονεστάτη θύγατερ is not easy to render in natural English.  Suggest:
You are completely out of your mind, daughter! Who are those you have killed?


Offline billberg23

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ὦ ἀφρονεστάτη θύγατερ is not easy to render in natural English.
Nor is it genuine ancient Greek, wandle, but instead a late 20th-century invention as an exercise by the author of JM's first-year Greek book.  Though JM probably learns more from literal translations, it's good for him to see even such artificial sentences imaginatively rendered, so thanks!
« Last Edit: 06 Oct, 2010, 03:50:22 by billberg23 »
Τί δέ τις; Τί δ' οὔ τις; Σκιᾶς ὄναρ ἄνθρωπος. — Πίνδαρος



Offline Antigone

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The plural can simply express a general or indefinite sense, as in Sophocles, Oedipus Rex 1184f.

ὅστις πέφασμαι ... ξὺν οἶς / τ' οὐ χρῆν ὁμιλῶν, οὕς τέ μ' οὐκ ἔδει κτανών. "[ I], who am revealed to have had intercourse with whom I shouldn't have and killed whom I shouldn't have."
(where Oedipus is referring to only one person respectively, first his mother, then his father). So "Who did you kill?" would be just fine here as well, I think.
« Last Edit: 07 Oct, 2010, 12:14:42 by Antigone »
καλῶς δρῶν ἐξαμαρτεῖν μᾶλλον ἢ νικᾶν κακῶς.



Offline billberg23

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I doubt that the (late 20th century) author of the sentence in JM's grammar book was thinking of such stylistic refinements.  The point would have been to recognize the forms in the declension of the interrogative pronoun.  (-;
Τί δέ τις; Τί δ' οὔ τις; Σκιᾶς ὄναρ ἄνθρωπος. — Πίνδαρος


 

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