δημηγόροι ἀγαθοί -> respectable orators

Online spiros

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δημηγόροι ἀγαθοί -> benevolent orators (Xenophon, Memorabilia 2.6.15)
δημαγωγοὶ ἀγαθοί -> decent demagogues (Lysias 27.10)

https://lsj.gr/wiki/%CE%B4%CE%B7%CE%BC%CE%B7%CE%B3%CF%8C%CF%81%CE%BF%CF%82

δημαγωγός, -οῦ, ὁ ΟΥΣΙΑΣΤΙΚΟ
1. με θετική σημ. ο αρχηγός του λαού, αυτός που επηρεάζει, κατευθύνει το λαό (όπως λ.χ. ο Περικλής): δημαγωγοὶ ἀγαθοί.
2. συνήθως με κακή σημ. δημαγωγός: ἔστιν γὰρ δημαγωγὸς ὁ τοῦ δήμου κόλαξ = γιατί ο δημαγωγός είναι αυτός που κολακεύει το λαό.
http://archeia.moec.gov.cy/sm/435/leksiko_archaias_ellinikis_glossas.pdf
« Last Edit: 18 Jan, 2020, 09:55:25 by spiros »


Offline billberg23

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I guess I'd be inclined to translate ἀγαθοί in those contexts as "decent" or "respectable."  Reminds me of Cato's definition of an ideal orator:  vir bonus dicendi peritus, "a good man skilled at speaking."  Δημαγωγοὶ ἀγαθοί might = "respectable politicians."  In my experience with ancient Greek, a person is called ἀγαθός when he does or says the right thing at the right time.
« Last Edit: 17 Jan, 2020, 14:00:31 by billberg23 »



Online spiros

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The impetus for the idiosyncratic approach was the fact that it was presented as an antonym in LSJ:

Quote
δημηγόροι ἀγαθοί, opp. ῥήτορες φαῦλοι


Offline billberg23

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Yes, I see what you mean, if φαῦλος="cheap" means "stingy."  Other meanings in classical authors for φαῦλος include "mean," "bad," "careless," "indifferent."   Φαυλόβιος in LSJ has the single meaning "living disreputably." In those cases, ἀγαθός would be an antonym.



 

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