everything flows and nothing stands still -> πάντα [χω]ρεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει

Offline bankholdup

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Hi there,

I have been reading a lot of Heraclitus lately and am curious about the correct translation for this statement, Wikipedia has it as:

    πάντα ρεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει (Plato, Cratylus 402a)
    Everything flows and nothing is left (unchanged), or
    Everything flows and nothing stands still, or
    All things are in motion and nothing remains still.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraclitus

But I have also seen it as:

Which one of these is correct? Is the second one a slight variation?

Thank you for your help.
« Last Edit: 14 May, 2009, 21:09:56 by spiros »


Offline billberg23

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  • Words ail me.
It seems that almost no one quotes the text of Plato accurately:  too bad, since he's the earliest source for the statement.  "Heraclitus says somewhere," remarks Socrates, "that πάντα χωρεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει" (—literally, "that everything gives way, and nothing stays").  It must have been Diogenes Laertius 9.8, five centuries later, who gave us the version πάντα ῥεῖ   — literally, "everything is flowing."
By the way, your second transcription is different only in that it omits the word for "and."  
« Last Edit: 06 Oct, 2011, 04:41:40 by billberg23 »
Τί δέ τις; Τί δ' οὔ τις; Σκιᾶς ὄναρ ἄνθρωπος. — Πίνδαρος



Offline Timothy

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I am looking to use this is some art that I am currently producing.  Does πάντα χωρεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει stand alone as a complete thought?  Was it originally written in all caps as other Ancient Greek (could you show it)?  And I was wondering how it is pronounced.  I am a new student to the language and I'm sure how I would say it is not entirely correct.  Thank you.


Offline banned8

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It would look like this in upper-case ancient Greek, Timothy. And it does stand alone as a complete thought (everything keeps moving and nothing stands still). Here in Greece we pronounce it as if it were written today /'panda ho'ri ke u'δen 'meni/. Others may suggest how the ancients may have pronounced it.





Offline Timothy

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Thank you.  I knew that in English the phrase would stand alone as a complete thought but I was not sure if the Greek language treated it differently.  I am currently working on memorizing the the different sounds of adjacent vowels in Modern Greek so I appreciate the phonetics.


Offline Timothy

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It seems that my copy of Illustrator needs to be reinstalled.  Would it be possible to have the phrase in some of your favorite fonts, Nickel?  I would appreciate it greatly as it would save me a lot of time on the completion of this project.  My new computer arrives next week sometime but I would like to have this completed by then.
« Last Edit: 06 Jul, 2007, 00:33:41 by Timothy »



Offline Timothy

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This will be my last request on this topic.  I would like a .gif or .jpg of the phrase in lowercase greek with accents in a few different fonts.  Thank you once more your efforts are greatly apprectiated.



 

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